Eastman and Dupont win Academy Award in 1931 for Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Film?

[c***@hotmail.com]

At the 1931 Academy awards both companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.
What did Dupont have to do with it?

Does anybody know the four digit code number for this film?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
At the 1931 Academy awards both companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.

Super-Sensitive was about 40 ASA, and it was pretty quickly replaced
with Super-X which was a little faster. By the late 1930s, Super-XX
was out.

Post by c***@hotmail.com
What did Dupont have to do with it?

I think Dupont made a competing high-speed stock.

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know the four digit code number for this film?

I do not, it's not in my 1941 manual which is the oldest one I have. Note
that some of the stocks in that era did not have code numbers, though.
--scott

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

At the 1931 Academy awards both  companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.

Super-Sensitive was about 40 ASA, and it was pretty quickly replaced
with Super-X which was a little faster.  By the late 1930s, Super-XX
was out.

What did Dupont have to do with it?

I think Dupont made a competing high-speed stock.

Does anybody know the  four digit code number for this film?

I do not, it's not in my 1941 manual which is the oldest one I have.  Note
that some of the stocks in that era did not have code numbers, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim

[J. Theakston]

Post by t***@gmail.com
I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim

I sometimes wonder how timely articles like those were, seeing as
panchromatic stock had been around for a good ten years and by 1931,
had been the stock of choice for some years.

J. Theakston

[t***@gmail.com]

Post by J. Theakston

Post by t***@gmail.com
I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim

I sometimes wonder how timely articles like those were, seeing as
panchromatic stock had been around for a good ten years and by 1931,
had been the stock of choice for some years.
J. Theakston

I just found the manual this morning. The panchromatic film discussed
in it is the new hypersensitive version. Eastman's is called "Super-
Sensitive Panchromatic Type Two," and Dupont's is "Special
Panchromatic." They were both referred to simply as fast film ("twice
as fast to daylight and three times as fast to tungsten light as the
panchromatic in use up to the time"). A cursory reading of a couple of
the articles indicates no ASA rating (perhaps the standard had not yet
been established), but there are several H&D graphs showing its
dynamic range. There's also an article on light meters, including a
Leitz Distance meter using a selenium photoelectric cell born of
motion picture sound technology. One article mentions the careful and
judicious use of a green safelight with the older, slower panchromatic
film. I had always assumed that orthochromatic stock was the only one
that could be used safely with a safelight. You learn something new
every day.
David Joachim

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by t***@gmail.com
I just found the manual this morning. The panchromatic film discussed
in it is the new hypersensitive version. Eastman's is called "Super-
Sensitive Panchromatic Type Two," and Dupont's is "Special
Panchromatic." They were both referred to simply as fast film ("twice
as fast to daylight and three times as fast to tungsten light as the
panchromatic in use up to the time"). A cursory reading of a couple of
the articles indicates no ASA rating (perhaps the standard had not yet
been established), but there are several H&D graphs showing its
dynamic range.

Excellent! If you have the H-D curve, we can figure out the ASA rating.
The ASA method picks two points on the curve and figures the average
sensitivity between them... the Weston and GOST methods are a little
different (and the modern ISO standard is still more different) so they
are not necessarily equivalent to one another on a real world film stock
that is not completely linear. I think there is a Wikipedia page that
shows the moern ISO method.

Post by t***@gmail.com
There's also an article on light meters, including a
Leitz Distance meter using a selenium photoelectric cell born of
motion picture sound technology. One article mentions the careful and
judicious use of a green safelight with the older, slower panchromatic
film. I had always assumed that orthochromatic stock was the only one
that could be used safely with a safelight. You learn something new
every day.

I owned a green safelight filter that came with the Kodak Brownie Safelight,
and it mentioned being able to develop by inspection using the thing.
Even after a 20 minute sit in the dark, I couldn't see a damn thing with
the green light.... it was not useful at all. Even worse than the deep
yellow-green safelight for color printing.
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by J. Theakston

Post by t***@gmail.com
I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim

I sometimes wonder how timely articles like those were, seeing as
panchromatic stock had been around for a good ten years and by 1931,
had been the stock of choice for some years.
J. Theakston

I just found the manual this morning. The panchromatic film discussed
in it is the new hypersensitive version. Eastman's is called "Super-
Sensitive Panchromatic Type Two," and Dupont's is "Special
Panchromatic." They were both referred to simply as fast film ("twice
as fast to daylight and three times as fast to tungsten light as the
panchromatic in use up to the time"). A cursory reading of a couple of
the articles indicates no ASA rating (perhaps the standard had not yet
been established), but there are several H&D graphs showing its
dynamic range. There's also an article on light meters, including a
Leitz Distance meter using a selenium photoelectric cell born of
motion picture sound technology. One article mentions the careful and
judicious use of a green safelight with the older, slower panchromatic
film. I had always assumed that orthochromatic stock was the only one
that could be used safely with a safelight. You learn something new
every day.
David Joachim

Interesting that it is referred to as "Supersensitive Panchromatic
Type 2" I always thought
the Type 2 emulsion was its predecessor which was introduced in 1928
after Hal Mohr(whilst working on
Noah's Ark) complained about the Eastman Panchromatic Type 1 emulsion
and Eastman came up with
type 2 in answer to his complaints.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by J. Theakston

Post by t***@gmail.com
I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim

I sometimes wonder how timely articles like those were, seeing as
panchromatic stock had been around for a good ten years and by 1931,
had been the stock of choice for some years.
J. Theakston

I just found the manual this morning. The panchromatic film discussed
in it is the new hypersensitive version. Eastman's is called "Super-
Sensitive Panchromatic Type Two," and Dupont's is "Special
Panchromatic." They were both referred to simply as fast film ("twice
as fast to daylight and three times as fast to tungsten light as the
panchromatic in use up to the time"). A cursory reading of a couple of
the articles indicates no ASA rating (perhaps the standard had not yet
been established), but there are several H&D graphs showing its
dynamic range. There's also an article on light meters, including a
Leitz Distance meter using a selenium photoelectric cell born of
motion picture sound technology. One article mentions the careful and
judicious use of a green safelight with the older, slower panchromatic
film. I had always assumed that orthochromatic stock was the only one
that could be used safely with a safelight. You learn something new
every day.
David Joachim

David,
The August 1932 SMPE Journal (Progress Committeee Report)
refers to these emulsions,
and reference is made to "Cinemat. Ann. 2(1931) p.93

Is this the same manual you have? Apparently on page 93 cameramen from
the period give their
opinions on the new "fast" emulsions.
If it's not too much trouble, you you give us a rundown of what is
said on page 93?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by t***@gmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey

At the 1931 Academy awards both  companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.

Super-Sensitive was about 40 ASA, and it was pretty quickly replaced
with Super-X which was a little faster.  By the late 1930s, Super-XX
was out.

What did Dupont have to do with it?

I think Dupont made a competing high-speed stock.

Does anybody know the  four digit code number for this film?

I do not, it's not in my 1941 manual which is the oldest one I have.  Note
that some of the stocks in that era did not have code numbers, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I actually have a 1931 manual that I haven't looked at in years. It
discusses the new panchromatic film (as well as a new invention called
the light meter). If I can locate it it, I will see if it has any
useful information.
David Joachim- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Thanks David, any information will be much appreciated. Barry Salt in
his "Film Style and Technology"
states that this film was mainly used for newsreel work and not for
feature film production. I find that hard
to believe as I thought it was the standard motion picture b/w
negative from 1931 to 1935.
I know there was an article about in in a 1935(May?) SMPE Journal but
unfortunately the State Library here
in Sydney(Australia) only goes back to 1936.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[John Mc Keown]

Peter,

archive.org has SMPE issues going back to 1930 - unfortunately none before
that!

Here ...

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=society%20motion%20picture&page=1

... enjoy!

Archive.org's collection starts with volume 14, which contains, I think, the
first issue of the Journal (Jan. 1930) - previous to that, SMPE issued the
"Transactions" publication.

John.
Thanks David, any information will be much appreciated. Barry Salt in
his "Film Style and Technology"
states that this film was mainly used for newsreel work and not for
feature film production. I find that hard
to believe as I thought it was the standard motion picture b/w
negative from 1931 to 1935.
I know there was an article about in in a 1935(May?) SMPE Journal but
unfortunately the State Library here
in Sydney(Australia) only goes back to 1936.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

On May 30, 9:34 pm, "John Mc Keown"

Post by John Mc Keown
Peter,
archive.org has SMPE issues going back to 1930 - unfortunately none before
that!
Here ...
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=society%20motion%20picture&pa...
... enjoy!
Archive.org's collection starts with volume 14, which contains, I think, the
first issue of the Journal (Jan. 1930) - previous to that, SMPE issued the
"Transactions" publication.
John.

John,
Thanks very much for the information, it will make my life a
lot easier.
The Progress Committee Report in the July 1936 Journal refers to new
motion picture
films of greater speed being introduced in 1935, it does not refer to
the actual emulsions
but when I checked the September 1935 SMPE journal it actually
referred to 3 new
Ansco films not the Super X.

I don't suppose American Cinematographer have back issues on line?

Regards,
Peter Mason

Post by John Mc Keown
Thanks David, any information will be much appreciated.  Barry Salt in
his "Film Style and Technology"
states that this film was mainly used for newsreel work and not for
feature film production. I find that hard
to believe as I thought it was the standard motion picture b/w
negative from 1931 to 1935.
I know there was an article about in in a 1935(May?) SMPE Journal but
unfortunately the State Library here
in Sydney(Australia) only goes back to 1936.
Regards,
Peter Mason

[John Mc Keown]

Peter,

unfortunately, I have found no back issues of AC on the internet.

My memory is hazy on this, but I think that for a brief time, the AC was
re-printing a few old articles in the modern journal. There are a small
handful here:

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/mar99.htm

including an interesting word from Ernst Lubitsch on Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC.
On these articles, you have to click on the still-image to progress to the
text.

You may know that archive.org has many interesting cinematography books on
its site - including the 1947 ASC Manual and many silent-era works; try,
"cinematography" and "motion picture" in the search box. I'd link to a few,
but archive.org's search-engine is acting-up at the moment.


John.
I don't suppose American Cinematographer have back issues on line?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

On Jun 1, 10:56 pm, "John Mc Keown"

Post by John Mc Keown
Peter,
unfortunately, I have found no back issues of AC on the internet.
My memory is hazy on this, but I think that for a brief time, the AC was
re-printing a few old articles in the modern journal. There are a small
http://www.theasc.com/magazine/mar99.htm
including an interesting word from Ernst Lubitsch on Dreyer's JOAN OF ARC.
On these articles, you have to click on the still-image to progress to the
text.
You may know that archive.org has many interesting cinematography books on
its site - including the 1947 ASC Manual and many silent-era works; try,
"cinematography" and "motion picture" in the search box. I'd link to a few,
but archive.org's search-engine is acting-up at the moment.

John,
I've been trying to find that 1947 AC Manual but so far
without luck.
Could you give me any further info as to where it might be?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[John Mc Keown]

Here you are, Peter:

http://www.archive.org/details/americancinemato010108mbp


I do love archive.org. That plus youtube and I basically have a life-time's
media collection ; )

John.
John,
I've been trying to find that 1947 AC Manual but so far
without luck.
Could you give me any further info as to where it might be?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

On Jun 11, 4:23 am, "John Mc Keown"

Post by John Mc Keown
http://www.archive.org/details/americancinemato010108mbp
I do love archive.org. That plus youtube and I basically have a life-time's
media collection ; )

Thanks John, There's lots of interesting information in that manual.
Back in the forties
Dupont made lots of films and apparently had a large share of the
market.
The tables at about page 233 list the then available 16mm films and
their speed ratings.
I'm surprised that Plus X 5231 negative is not on the table but
Super XX negative is.

Regards,
Peter Mason

Post by John Mc Keown
John,
        I've been trying to find that 1947 AC Manual but so far
without luck.
Could you give me any further info as to where it might be?
Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

At the 1931 Academy awards both  companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.

Super-Sensitive was about 40 ASA, and it was pretty quickly replaced
with Super-X which was a little faster.  By the late 1930s, Super-XX
was out.

The information I have is that it was 25 Weston(about 32 ASA) aqnd the
Super X which was introduced in 1935 was 32 Weston (40ASA).

Regards,
Peter Mason

Post by Scott Dorsey

What did Dupont have to do with it?

I think Dupont made a competing high-speed stock.

Does anybody know the  four digit code number for this film?

I do not, it's not in my 1941 manual which is the oldest one I have.  Note
that some of the stocks in that era did not have code numbers, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

At the 1931 Academy awards both  companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.

Super-Sensitive was about 40 ASA, and it was pretty quickly replaced
with Super-X which was a little faster.  By the late 1930s, Super-XX
was out.

What did Dupont have to do with it?

I think Dupont made a competing high-speed stock.

Does anybody know the  four digit code number for this film?

I do not, it's not in my 1941 manual which is the oldest one I have.  Note
that some of the stocks in that era did not have code numbers, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
Is there any reference in your 1941 manual to Eastman Plus X
negative 5231 Safety film in 16MM?
Also Eastman Super XX 5232 Negative in 16MM?
Do they give an ASA or a Weston rating for these films for Daylight
and Tungsten(Mazda)?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Scott,
Is there any reference in your 1941 manual to Eastman Plus X
negative 5231 Safety film in 16MM?
Also Eastman Super XX 5232 Negative in 16MM?
Do they give an ASA or a Weston rating for these films for Daylight
and Tungsten(Mazda)?

Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight. I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Scott,
       Is there any reference in your 1941 manual to Eastman Plus X
negative  5231 Safety film in 16MM?
Also Eastman Super XX  5232 Negative in 16MM?
Do they give an ASA or a Weston rating for these films  for Daylight
and Tungsten(Mazda)?

Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight.  I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
In the forties the 35mm version of Plus X was nitrate based
and used the 1231 code. The 16mm version would have used
the 5231 code. As far as I am aware the 1232(later 5232) Super XX was
discontinued in the fifties?
I don't think that films would be rated in ASA in 1941, more likely
Weston.
By the way Eastman only began using the "7" prefix code to designate
16mm film in the mid-fifties.
As far as I am aware the last 16mm film to use the "5" prefix was the
Kodachrome reversal print film 5269
which was introduced in 1956. Plus X reversal film 7276 which was
introduced in 1955 and Tri X Reversal film
7278 introduced in the same year were the first films to use the "7"
prefix for 16mm.?

If anybody has any further info on this I would much appreciate it.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Scott Dorsey]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Dorsey
Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight. =A0I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.

        In the forties the 35mm version of Plus X was nitrate based
and used the 1231 code. The 16mm version would have used
the 5231 code.

Okay, what I have is the 1936 (not 1941, sorry) edition of _Motion Picture
Laboratory Practice and Characteristics of Eastman Motion Picture Films_.
It lists Super-X as code 1227, Super Sensitive as 1217, Background Pan
as 1213, and Eastman Negative as 1201.
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em.  No mention of any 16mm materials.

As far as I am aware the 1232(later 5232)  Super XX was
discontinued in the fifties?

I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm.  40 and 100 ASA daylight respectively,
32 and 87 Tungsten.  No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

Scott,
Does it indicate whether these films are reversal or
negative? I'm pretty sure there was a reversal
Super X as well as the negative.

Post by Scott Dorsey
The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

Scott,
What does RAR stand for?


Regards,
Peter Mason

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm. =A040 and 100 ASA daylight respectivel=

y,

Post by Scott Dorsey
32 and 87 Tungsten. =A0No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

Does it indicate whether these films are reversal or
negative? I'm pretty sure there was a reversal
Super X as well as the negative.

It doesn't! And you know, I think I would assume that it was talking
about the reversal film now, given the consumer audience.

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

What does RAR stand for?

Rapid access and recording. 2615 could be developed dry-to-dry in less
than four minutes, including thirty seconds in a 130 degree developer.
Very popular for radarscope photography, military reconnaissance, etc.

The Graphics division had a huge line of that kind of stuff... high
resolving power films that relied on edge development like Shellburst
Linagraph Pan, films with extended red and extended UV sensitivity,
films with weird base materials. Mostly for military and scientific
photography.
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey
I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm. =A040 and 100 ASA daylight respectivel=

y,

Post by Scott Dorsey
32 and 87 Tungsten. =A0No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

        Does it indicate whether these films are reversal or
negative? I'm pretty sure there was a reversal
Super X as well as the negative.

It doesn't!  And you know, I think I would assume that it was talking
about the reversal film now, given the consumer audience.

Post by Scott Dorsey
The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

        What does RAR stand for?

Rapid access and recording.  2615 could be developed dry-to-dry in less
than four minutes, including thirty seconds in a 130 degree developer.
Very popular for radarscope photography, military reconnaissance, etc.
The Graphics division had a huge line of that kind of stuff... high
resolving power films that relied on edge development like Shellburst
Linagraph Pan, films with extended red and extended UV sensitivity,
films with weird base materials.  Mostly for military and scientific
photography.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
The table on page 233 of the 1947 AC Manual lists Cine
Kodak Super X pan reversal(rated at 32 Weston for Daylight and 24
Weston for Tungsten).
and super XX Pan reversal rated at 80 Weston, Daylight and 64 Weston
Tungsten. The Super XX Negative
is rated at 100 Weston. (daylight and 64 Tungsten.
Check out the Manual, Scott. Lots of interesting information.

Regards,
Peter mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Dorsey
Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight. =A0I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.

        In the forties the 35mm version of Plus X was nitrate based
and used the 1231 code. The 16mm version would have used
the 5231 code.

Okay, what I have is the 1936 (not 1941, sorry) edition of _Motion Picture
Laboratory Practice and Characteristics of Eastman Motion Picture Films_.
It lists Super-X as code 1227, Super Sensitive as 1217, Background Pan
as 1213, and Eastman Negative as 1201.
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em.  No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
I'd appreciate copies of the H&D curves. Please send to
***@hotmail.com
Thanks.

Regards,
Peter Mason

Post by Scott Dorsey

As far as I am aware the 1232(later 5232)  Super XX was
discontinued in the fifties?

I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm.  40 and 100 ASA daylight respectively,
32 and 87 Tungsten.  No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

By the way Eastman only began using the "7" prefix code to designate
16mm film in the mid-fifties.
As far as I am aware the last 16mm film to use the "5" prefix was the
Kodachrome reversal print film 5269
which was introduced in 1956. Plus X reversal film 7276 which was
introduced in 1955 and Tri X Reversal film
7278 introduced in the same year were the first films to use the "7"
prefix for 16mm.?

The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

If anybody has any further info on this  I would much appreciate it.

That's all I got, which isn't much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Dorsey
Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight. =A0I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.

        In the forties the 35mm version of Plus X was nitrate based
and used the 1231 code. The 16mm version would have used
the 5231 code.

Okay, what I have is the 1936 (not 1941, sorry) edition of _Motion Picture
Laboratory Practice and Characteristics of Eastman Motion Picture Films_.
It lists Super-X as code 1227, Super Sensitive as 1217, Background Pan
as 1213, and Eastman Negative as 1201.
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em.  No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Please send to ***@hotmail.com
Disregard the Petermason10 address
Regards,
Peter mason

Post by Scott Dorsey

As far as I am aware the 1232(later 5232)  Super XX was
discontinued in the fifties?

I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm.  40 and 100 ASA daylight respectively,
32 and 87 Tungsten.  No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

By the way Eastman only began using the "7" prefix code to designate
16mm film in the mid-fifties.
As far as I am aware the last 16mm film to use the "5" prefix was the
Kodachrome reversal print film 5269
which was introduced in 1956. Plus X reversal film 7276 which was
introduced in 1955 and Tri X Reversal film
7278 introduced in the same year were the first films to use the "7"
prefix for 16mm.?

The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

If anybody has any further info on this  I would much appreciate it.

That's all I got, which isn't much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Scott Dorsey
Back in the seventies, 7231 was 80 ASA daylight, 64 ASA tungsten,
and 7232 was 250 ASA daylight. =A0I don't remember if we had to derate
7232 with tungsten illumination, but I'll check this evening when I
am back home and have the old H-1 editions.

        In the forties the 35mm version of Plus X was nitrate based
and used the 1231 code. The 16mm version would have used
the 5231 code.

Okay, what I have is the 1936 (not 1941, sorry) edition of _Motion Picture
Laboratory Practice and Characteristics of Eastman Motion Picture Films_.
It lists Super-X as code 1227, Super Sensitive as 1217, Background Pan
as 1213, and Eastman Negative as 1201.
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em.  No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Disregard the Petermason10   address
Regards,
Peter mason

Post by Scott Dorsey

As far as I am aware the 1232(later 5232)  Super XX was
discontinued in the fifties?

I have a 1952 _Kodak Cine Photoguide_ for amateurs which lists
Super-X and Super-XX both in 16mm.  40 and 100 ASA daylight respectively,
32 and 87 Tungsten.  No mention of any emulsion numbers, though.

By the way Eastman only began using the "7" prefix code to designate
16mm film in the mid-fifties.
As far as I am aware the last 16mm film to use the "5" prefix was the
Kodachrome reversal print film 5269
which was introduced in 1956. Plus X reversal film 7276 which was
introduced in 1955 and Tri X Reversal film
7278 introduced in the same year were the first films to use the "7"
prefix for 16mm.?

The numbering scheme gets pretty weird where graphics products like
2615 RAR film are concerned, and often a large number of sizes are
available with one number in those cases.

If anybody has any further info on this  I would much appreciate it.

That's all I got, which isn't much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Scott,
I didn't realise that it won't accept
full email addresses.
If it's not too much trouble would you please send to either cinemad
at hotmail.com or
petermason10 at hotmail.com

Thanks for your trouble.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em. =A0No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Disregard the Petermason10 address

I put the chapter up at http://www.panix.com/~kludge/kodak.pdf because
several other people wanted to see it as well. I'll take it down in a week
or so, so get it now.
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em. =A0No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Disregard the Petermason10   address

I put the chapter up athttp://www.panix.com/~kludge/kodak.pdfbecause
several other people wanted to see it as well.  I'll take it down in a week
or so, so get it now.
--scott

Thanks Scott,
Great information, particularly the then
current camera negatives and duplicate stocks.
There's no information on the speed of Kodachrome is there?
Apparently the speed of Kodachrome
was increased in 1945 when the P-12A Higher temperature Process was
introduced(increased from
70F to 80F) and the emulsions were assigned new four digit codes. The
original 1935 Kodachrome Daylight stock (5261 I think)
was changed to 5263 and the 1936 Tungsten stock, Type A(5262 , also
used for dupes) was changed to 5264.
The increased speeds were 8 Weston(10ASA) for daylight film and 12
Weston (16ASA) for Type A Tungsten.
Information seems to be very hazy as to what the original speeds were?

Regards,
Peter Mason

--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
There's no information on the speed of Kodachrome is there?
Apparently the speed of Kodachrome
was increased in 1945 when the P-12A Higher temperature Process was
introduced(increased from
70F to 80F) and the emulsions were assigned new four digit codes. The
original 1935 Kodachrome Daylight stock (5261 I think)
was changed to 5263 and the 1936 Tungsten stock, Type A(5262 , also
used for dupes) was changed to 5264.
The increased speeds were 8 Weston(10ASA) for daylight film and 12
Weston (16ASA) for Type A Tungsten.

None of the cine documentation I have mentions Kodachrome at all until
the early 1950s, and then only as a 16mm format.

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Information seems to be very hazy as to what the original speeds were?

It's possible they varied from batch to batch slightly. It's also possible
there were preproduction samples at a different speed than the final product.
Also note that there were still questions about how to measure film speed
back in those days, and because the curve on Kodachrome has a pretty high
slope and slams right down at the end, it might be better exposed at a
half-stop to a stop less than the film speed indicated by the ASA method
(which selects two points on the curve and averages them but does not
take into account the head or toe shape).
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em. =A0No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Disregard the Petermason10   address

I put the chapter up athttp://www.panix.com/~kludge/kodak.pdfbecause
several other people wanted to see it as well.  I'll take it down in a week
or so, so get it now.
--scott

Thanks Scott,
                       Great information, particularly the then
current camera negatives and duplicate stocks.
There's no information on the speed of Kodachrome is there?
Apparently the speed of Kodachrome
was increased in 1945 when the P-12A  Higher temperature Process was
introduced(increased from
70F to 80F) and the emulsions were assigned new four digit codes. The
original 1935 Kodachrome Daylight stock (5261 I think)
was changed to 5263 and the 1936 Tungsten stock, Type A(5262 , also
used for dupes) was changed to 5264.
The increased speeds were 8 Weston(10ASA) for daylight film and 12
Weston (16ASA) for Type A  Tungsten.
Information seems to be very hazy as to what the original speeds were?
Regards,
Peter Mason

In relation to the original speed of Kodachrome please see my recent
post "Kodachrome original speed"

Regards,
Peter Mason

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Scott Dorsey
No actual ratings on any of them, but it has sample H-D curves if you
want 'em. =A0No mention of any 16mm materials.

Scott,
Disregard the Petermason10   address

I put the chapter up athttp://www.panix.com/~kludge/kodak.pdfbecause
several other people wanted to see it as well.  I'll take it down in a week
or so, so get it now.
--scott

Thanks Scott,
Great information, particularly the then
current camera negatives and duplicate stocks.
There's no information on the speed of Kodachrome is there?
Apparently the speed of Kodachrome
was increased in 1945 when the P-12A Higher temperature Process was
introduced(increased from
70F to 80F) and the emulsions were assigned new four digit codes. The
original 1935 Kodachrome Daylight stock (5261 I think)
was changed to 5263 and the 1936 Tungsten stock, Type A(5262 , also
used for dupes) was changed to 5264.
The increased speeds were 8 Weston(10ASA) for daylight film and 12
Weston (16ASA) for Type A Tungsten.
Information seems to be very hazy as to what the original speeds were?

Regards,
Peter Mason

--
"C'est un Nagra.  C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Martin Hart]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[in Technicolor®]

Post by Martin Hart
In article <58557583-181b-44d6-a23c-

Post by c***@hotmail.com
At the 1931 Academy awards both companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.
What did Dupont have to do with it?
Does anybody know the four digit code number for this film?
Regards,
Peter Mason

Just to throw in a little bit of history, and I don't have any specific
dates to give, it was not uncommon for people to buy orthochromatic film
stock and in some way process it, before shooting, to make it
panchromatic. This was before the likes of Kodak and DuPont introduced
a quality panchromatic film.
Panchromatic film was not deemed a necessity until companies like
Technicolor, Kinemacolor, etc. needed a pan stock that they could use to
record a broad color spectrum. The film developed for color work was
ultimately used, with good results, to shoot black and white. I think
it was in the mid 1920s when Panchromatic was made more widely available
from the film manufacturers.
If I recall correctly, it was a Robert J. Flaherty film shot in the
Pacific that was the first film to be made entirely in Pan stock. From
my understanding there was a large quantity on hand for use with a
Technicolor two-component camera that was plagued with problems. The
stock was used in a standard Bell & Howell and the resulting photography
was hailed as exquisite. I don't recall if the film was the 1926
"Moana", or the 1928 "White Shadows in the South Seas".
End of brain dump.
Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/

According to wikipedia it appears to Moana:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moana

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Martin Hart
In article <58557583-181b-44d6-a23c-

At the 1931 Academy awards both  companies were given a joint Academy
Award for the development of
this film. Eastman Super-Sensitive Panchromatic Negative film was
introduced in February 1931 as their
new higher speed panchromatic negative.
What did Dupont have to do with it?
Does anybody know the  four digit code number for this film?
Regards,
Peter Mason

Just to throw in a little bit of history, and I don't have any specific
dates to give, it was not uncommon for people to buy orthochromatic film
stock and in some way process it, before shooting, to make it
panchromatic.  This was before the likes of Kodak and DuPont introduced
a quality panchromatic film.
Panchromatic film was not deemed a necessity until companies like
Technicolor, Kinemacolor, etc. needed a pan stock that they could use to
record a broad color spectrum.  The film developed for color work was
ultimately used, with good results, to shoot black and white.  I think
it was in the mid 1920s when Panchromatic was made more widely available
from the film manufacturers.
If I recall correctly, it was a Robert J. Flaherty film shot in the
Pacific that was the first film to be made entirely in Pan stock. From
my understanding there was a large quantity on hand for use with a
Technicolor two-component camera that was plagued with problems. The
stock was used in a standard Bell & Howell and the resulting photography
was hailed as exquisite.  I don't recall if the film was the 1926
"Moana", or the 1928 "White Shadows in the South Seas".
End of brain dump.
Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museumhttp://www.widescreenmuseum.com/

Martin,
The first film to be filmed entirely in panchromatic was
"The Headless Horseman" (1922) , directed by Edward D. Venturini
photographed by Ned Van Buren and starring Will Rogers and Lois
Meredith. Apparently it was financed by Eastman Kodak to
promote their Panchromatic film which was made a standard product the
following year.(previously it was only available on
special order.
According to Imdb it is available on panchromaticf DVD.

Regards,
Peter Mason