countdown leaders

[William Hooper]

Am trying to make a home made movie and need the old b&w coundown leader,
had to find one at no charge on the web, any sugesions?
tks
bw

SMPTE leaders are still copyrighted material.
The old Academy leader may or may not be - it's not old enough to be
immediately considered PD.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by William Hooper

Am trying to make a home made movie and need the old b&w coundown leader,
had to find one at no charge on the web, any sugesions?

SMPTE leaders are still copyrighted material.
The old Academy leader may or may not be - it's not old enough to be
immediately considered PD.

Ask your local transfer house to send you something with the SMPTE leader
left on the front....
--scott

[Harry Chickpea]

Post by William Hooper

Am trying to make a home made movie and need the old b&w coundown leader,
had to find one at no charge on the web, any sugesions?
tks
bw

SMPTE leaders are still copyrighted material.
The old Academy leader may or may not be - it's not old enough to be
immediately considered PD.

I can't imagine that SMPTE copyright being enforced against a home
movie, and I'm not sure the academy countdown leader was even unique
enough to have a copyright. I've seen a lot of variations (black
background, grey background, different style numbers, continuous
numbers, one number per 24 frames, one number per 16 frames, some with
diamonds, some without, etc.).

I can just imagine the conversation back then.

"Hi, I want a copyright."

"Sure, what on?"

"A strip of film that, when you run it through a projector, goes
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2"

"What happened to the 1?"

"Don't need it."

"You can't get a copyright on a sequence of numbers"

"What about the artistic merit?"

"On a countdown of numbers?"

"They're very pretty numbers."

"Hmm, let me check. Oh, seems like someone else already copyrighted
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0' in a book. Prior art. You'll be infringing
that copyright."

"Yeah, but we don't want anybody else using our numbers."

"They aren't 'YOUR' numbers. What about The Ten Commandments?"

"Oooh! I want to copyright that too! It could make a great movie
title."

"You can't copyright movie titles."

"What if I make it into a film leader?"

"I've had enough. You have ten seconds to get out of here. 10, 9,
8..."

[Bill Vermillion]

Post by Harry Chickpea

Post by William Hooper

Am trying to make a home made movie and need the old b&w coundown leader,
had to find one at no charge on the web, any sugesions?
tks
bw

SMPTE leaders are still copyrighted material.
The old Academy leader may or may not be - it's not old enough to be
immediately considered PD.

I can't imagine that SMPTE copyright being enforced against a home
movie, and I'm not sure the academy countdown leader was even unique
enough to have a copyright. I've seen a lot of variations (black
background, grey background, different style numbers, continuous
numbers, one number per 24 frames, one number per 16 frames, some with
diamonds, some without, etc.).
I can just imagine the conversation back then.
"Hi, I want a copyright."
"Sure, what on?"
"A strip of film that, when you run it through a projector, goes
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2"
"What happened to the 1?"
"Don't need it."

And you don't want it. Many stop at number 3. It gives the
projectionist time to open the shutter - otherwise you'd have a
chance of getting 1 or 2 on the screen.

Bill

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Bill Vermillion

Post by Harry Chickpea
"What happened to the 1?"
"Don't need it."

And you don't want it. Many stop at number 3. It gives the
projectionist time to open the shutter - otherwise you'd have a
chance of getting 1 or 2 on the screen.

But where is the beep? There HAS to be a beep!
--scott

[Gary G. Taylor]

And you don't want it. Many stop at number 3. It gives the projectionist
time to open the shutter - otherwise you'd have a chance of getting 1 or 2
on the screen.
Bill

There are two basic types of countdown leader. The one which ends on
3--the Academy leader--has numbers a foot apart, so that the 3 is three
feet from the beginning of the reel. The one which ends on 2--the SMPTE
leader--has numbers 24 frames (a foot and a half) apart; the 2 is also
three feet from the beginning of the reel. The beep occurs on the 3 of the
Academy leader and the 2 of the SMPTE.

[Jeffry L. Johnson]

Post by Gary G. Taylor
There are two basic types of countdown leader. The one which ends on
3--the Academy leader--has numbers a foot apart, so that the 3 is three
feet from the beginning of the reel. The one which ends on 2--the SMPTE
leader--has numbers 24 frames (a foot and a half) apart; the 2 is also
three feet from the beginning of the reel. The beep occurs on the 3 of the
Academy leader and the 2 of the SMPTE.

The current relevant standards are SMPTE 55 for the SMPTE Universal Leader
and SMPTE 301 for the SMPTE Projection Leader.

The Universal Leader counts down from 8 to 2 in seconds.

The Projection Leader, based on the original ASA Z22.55 (the "Academy
Leader"), counts down from 12 to 3 in "film feet" of 16 frames per foot.

Note that 2 seconds and 3 feet are both 48 frames before the first frame of
picture. Also note that 8 seconds and 12 feet are both 192 frames before the
first frame of picture.

The first revision of ASA Z22.55, the All-Purpose Film Leader, was published
in the 1951 May issue of the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 56:562-567.

The SMPTE Universal Leader was first described in the 1965 January issue of
the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 74:34-35.

[Harry Chickpea]

Post by Jeffry L. Johnson

Post by Gary G. Taylor
There are two basic types of countdown leader. The one which ends on
3--the Academy leader--has numbers a foot apart, so that the 3 is three
feet from the beginning of the reel. The one which ends on 2--the SMPTE
leader--has numbers 24 frames (a foot and a half) apart; the 2 is also
three feet from the beginning of the reel. The beep occurs on the 3 of the
Academy leader and the 2 of the SMPTE.

The current relevant standards are SMPTE 55 for the SMPTE Universal Leader
and SMPTE 301 for the SMPTE Projection Leader.
The Universal Leader counts down from 8 to 2 in seconds.
The Projection Leader, based on the original ASA Z22.55 (the "Academy
Leader"), counts down from 12 to 3 in "film feet" of 16 frames per foot.
Note that 2 seconds and 3 feet are both 48 frames before the first frame of
picture. Also note that 8 seconds and 12 feet are both 192 frames before the
first frame of picture.
The first revision of ASA Z22.55, the All-Purpose Film Leader, was published
in the 1951 May issue of the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 56:562-567.
The SMPTE Universal Leader was first described in the 1965 January issue of
the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 74:34-35.

Interesting. I know I have projected nitrate film that preceeded
these dates, yet had countdown leaders. I grant that the leaders
might have been spliced on and I wasn't paying attention. The Audio
'Cyclopedia refers to leaders for mag stock being made of scrap film,
but I can't help but think that countdown leaders pre-dated 1951. Any
idea when the first countdown leaders of any sort were made?

[Jeffry L. Johnson]

Post by Harry Chickpea

Post by Jeffry L. Johnson
The current relevant standards are SMPTE 55 for the SMPTE Universal Leader
and SMPTE 301 for the SMPTE Projection Leader.
The Universal Leader counts down from 8 to 2 in seconds.
The Projection Leader, based on the original ASA Z22.55 (the "Academy
Leader"), counts down from 12 to 3 in "film feet" of 16 frames per foot.
Note that 2 seconds and 3 feet are both 48 frames before the first frame of
picture. Also note that 8 seconds and 12 feet are both 192 frames before the
first frame of picture.
The first revision of ASA Z22.55, the All-Purpose Film Leader, was published
in the 1951 May issue of the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 56:562-567.
The SMPTE Universal Leader was first described in the 1965 January issue of
the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 74:34-35.

Interesting. I know I have projected nitrate film that preceeded
these dates, yet had countdown leaders. I grant that the leaders
might have been spliced on and I wasn't paying attention. The Audio
'Cyclopedia refers to leaders for mag stock being made of scrap film,
but I can't help but think that countdown leaders pre-dated 1951. Any
idea when the first countdown leaders of any sort were made?

The 1951 All-Purpose Leader was the first leader designed to accomodate
television.

My copy of ASA Z22.55 is dated 1947. The Academy Leader clearly predates
that.

[f***@yahoo.com]

The specifications for the Academy Leader were published on page 820 of
the December 1930 issue of the Journal of the S.M.P.E. I believe 1947
was the first year that ASA Z22.55 was published.

-Dan Sherlock

Post by Jeffry L. Johnson

Post by Harry Chickpea

Post by Jeffry L. Johnson
The current relevant standards are SMPTE 55 for the SMPTE Universal Leader
and SMPTE 301 for the SMPTE Projection Leader.
The Universal Leader counts down from 8 to 2 in seconds.
The Projection Leader, based on the original ASA Z22.55 (the "Academy
Leader"), counts down from 12 to 3 in "film feet" of 16 frames per foot.
Note that 2 seconds and 3 feet are both 48 frames before the first frame of
picture. Also note that 8 seconds and 12 feet are both 192 frames before the
first frame of picture.
The first revision of ASA Z22.55, the All-Purpose Film Leader, was published
in the 1951 May issue of the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 56:562-567.
The SMPTE Universal Leader was first described in the 1965 January issue of
the _Journal of the SMPTE_, 74:34-35.

Interesting. I know I have projected nitrate film that preceeded
these dates, yet had countdown leaders. I grant that the leaders
might have been spliced on and I wasn't paying attention. The Audio
'Cyclopedia refers to leaders for mag stock being made of scrap film,
but I can't help but think that countdown leaders pre-dated 1951. Any
idea when the first countdown leaders of any sort were made?

The 1951 All-Purpose Leader was the first leader designed to accomodate
television.
My copy of ASA Z22.55 is dated 1947. The Academy Leader clearly predates
that.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Harry Chickpea
"Hi, I want a copyright."
"Sure, what on?"
"A strip of film that, when you run it through a projector, goes
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2"

I was asked by an interviewer what my favorite TV show was, and I said
it was "Bars and Tone." It's much less interesting than the older
program it replaced, though. The one with the Indian was definitely
better.
--scott

[Harry Chickpea]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Harry Chickpea
"Hi, I want a copyright."
"Sure, what on?"
"A strip of film that, when you run it through a projector, goes
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2"

I was asked by an interviewer what my favorite TV show was, and I said
it was "Bars and Tone." It's much less interesting than the older
program it replaced, though. The one with the Indian was definitely
better.
--scott

One scene I don't think "Cuckoo's Nest" mentioned... It was
interesting to come on duty and walk into a day hall where all the
paranoid schizophrenics were sitting in rapt attention watching the
static on the tv screen.

I remember some who didn't want you to change the channel because the
tv was still talking to them. Now _that_ is customized programming.

[Bill Vermillion]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Harry Chickpea
"Hi, I want a copyright."
"Sure, what on?"
"A strip of film that, when you run it through a projector, goes
'10, 9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2"

I was asked by an interviewer what my favorite TV show was, and I said
it was "Bars and Tone." It's much less interesting than the older
program it replaced, though. The one with the Indian was definitely
better.
--scott

And I liked the Japanese version with the tiger replacing the
Indian. I have it on the ED-Beta demo tape, where I can see about
525 lines resolution.

BIll

[Steve Kraus]

Post by Bill Vermillion
And I liked the Japanese version with the tiger replacing the
Indian. I have it on the ED-Beta demo tape, where I can see about
525 lines resolution.

No retrace? Those inscrutible Japanese!

[Bill Vermillion]

Post by Steve Kraus

Post by Bill Vermillion
And I liked the Japanese version with the tiger replacing the
Indian. I have it on the ED-Beta demo tape, where I can see about
525 lines resolution.

No retrace? Those inscrutible Japanese!

Using the standard test pattern where there are diagonal lines
going to the center circle, I can read the lines at the 500 circle
and they are blurred at the 550 lines circle, and it is about
1/2 way between 500 and 550, so I estimated it was 525 lines.

The machine really is impressive with a 10MHz bandwidth, and
requires metal tapes - the same as used in BetCam SP.

They came out about the time the dollar/yen ration was at it's
worst - and since the EDV-9500 listed at over $3500US and the
camera - which really looked like an ENG was over $7000US - they
gave up and dumped them on the market - so I got mine 9500 for
about $1800. In picture quality it really is second only
to the BetaCam SP models. Thinkk of it as slow-speed composite
instead of component. A 30 minute SP tapes runs 3hours in ED-Beta.

The only difference you can really tell between DVD and ED-Beta
is the the typical analog noise which since the laws of physics
can't be repealed or revised you have to live with them :-)

Bill
Bill

[h***@netburner.net]

Has anyone seen countdown leaders that have a frame of a beautiful
woman on it?

Tommie Hicks

[Theo Gluck]

Post by h***@netburner.net
Has anyone seen countdown leaders that have a frame of a beautiful
woman on it?
Tommie Hicks

we all have

[Harry Chickpea]

Post by Theo Gluck

Post by h***@netburner.net
Has anyone seen countdown leaders that have a frame of a beautiful
woman on it?
Tommie Hicks

we all have

Ask John Ptlylak about that. Was it Terri Smith on those, or someone
else who modeled for that shot? Terri went around to theatre circuits
in the 1980s for Kodak, trying to impress upon managers and
projectionists that grease pencils and paper punches were not tools of
the trade. She was an impressive lady, 6' +, striking, and able to
hold her own in any conversation.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by h***@netburner.net
Has anyone seen countdown leaders that have a frame of a beautiful
woman on it?

That's not part of the countdown leader, per se. That's Shirley, and you
have to splice her on as a seperate operation, usually. She is a color
reference for processing and printing (which is why she is holding the
charts and grey scales).
--scott

[l***@yahoo.com]

Post by h***@netburner.net
Has anyone seen countdown leaders that have a frame of a beautiful
woman on it?
Tommie Hicks

The proper term is 'China Girl'

Technicolor had its own version of the SMPTE leader.
Same numbers and beep, but their own type face and ID.
70mm, VistaVision and Techniscope leader s are optically copied and
streched from the basic 35mm.

The 'SMPTE" leader on 'King of Hearts' was a hand brushed 2 perf copy
of the "SMPTE leader.

Japanese countdown leader has a series of squares the grows across the
screen between the numbers.

---LV

[Steve Kraus]

Post by Bill Vermillion
Using the standard test pattern where there are diagonal lines
going to the center circle, I can read the lines at the 500 circle
and they are blurred at the 550 lines circle, and it is about
1/2 way between 500 and 550, so I estimated it was 525 lines.

Ah, horizontal resolution not TV scan lines.

[Steve Kraus]

Post by Scott Dorsey
It's much less interesting than the older
program it replaced, though. The one with the Indian was definitely
better.

And best of all coming from a monoscope camera, not a slide. I wonder if
anyone has one preserved.

Kinda hard to get inside there and add "DT" to the call letters!

[peterh5322]

On 2006-08-18 09:49:45 -0700, Steve Kraus

Post by Steve Kraus

Post by Scott Dorsey
The one with the Indian was definitely
better.

And best of all coming from a monoscope camera, not a slide. I wonder
if anyone has one preserved.

A TK-1? Definitely.

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