Discussion:
70mm CINERAMA Question
(too old to reply)
Allan Young
2004-01-14 07:02:16 UTC
Permalink
What was the last film released with Cinerama rectified prints ? Does
anyone out there know ?

Allan Young.
Jim Nason
2004-01-14 16:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Young
What was the last film released with Cinerama rectified prints ? Does
anyone out there know ?
Allan Young.
I'm just guessing, but since "Khartoum" was the last 70mm Cinerama feature
filmed in Ultra-Panavision 70, would that not have been the last rectified
print? That was in 1966, and I remember most films shown thereafter on
Cinerama screens were filmed either in Super-Panavision 70 or in
Super-Technirama 70, hence not rectified.

Jim Nason
Martin Hart
2004-01-14 17:08:41 UTC
Permalink
In article <Lqednc0As5Mp-pjdRVn-***@metrocast.net>, ***@metrocast.net
says...
Post by Jim Nason
Post by Allan Young
What was the last film released with Cinerama rectified prints ? Does
anyone out there know ?
Allan Young.
I'm just guessing, but since "Khartoum" was the last 70mm Cinerama feature
filmed in Ultra-Panavision 70, would that not have been the last rectified
print? That was in 1966, and I remember most films shown thereafter on
Cinerama screens were filmed either in Super-Panavision 70 or in
Super-Technirama 70, hence not rectified.
Jim Nason
Jim, your guess is correct. "Khartoum" was the last rectified 70mm
Cinerama presentation.

Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Allan Young
2004-01-15 14:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
says...
Post by Jim Nason
Post by Allan Young
What was the last film released with Cinerama rectified prints ? Does
anyone out there know ?
Allan Young.
I'm just guessing, but since "Khartoum" was the last 70mm Cinerama feature
filmed in Ultra-Panavision 70, would that not have been the last rectified
print? That was in 1966, and I remember most films shown thereafter on
Cinerama screens were filmed either in Super-Panavision 70 or in
Super-Technirama 70, hence not rectified.
Jim Nason
Jim, your guess is correct. "Khartoum" was the last rectified 70mm
Cinerama presentation.
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
I wasn't aware that rectified prints were only produced for the UP70
films - I was under the impression that the flat 70mm movies had
rectified prints produced too.

Thanks for the info !

Allan.
Peter H.
2004-01-15 15:20:00 UTC
Permalink
I wasn't aware that rectified prints were only produced for the UP70 films - I
was under the impression that the flat 70mm movies had rectified prints
produced too.
They do.

The patent literature contains descriptions of several methods of
rectification. These patents are by O'brien, et. al., and were assigned to
A.O., one of the creaters of Todd-AO.

In one version, a distorted upward or downward look in the camera can be
corrected.

In another version, an undistorted look in the camera can be pre-distorted to
accommodate a downward look in the projector.

The general case of a distorted look in the camera and pre-distortion (i.e.,
rectification) on the print can be accommodated.
Jim Nason
2004-01-15 16:41:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter H.
I wasn't aware that rectified prints were only produced for the UP70 films - I
was under the impression that the flat 70mm movies had rectified prints
produced too.
They do.
The patent literature contains descriptions of several methods of
rectification. These patents are by O'brien, et. al., and were assigned to
A.O., one of the creaters of Todd-AO.
In one version, a distorted upward or downward look in the camera can be
corrected.
In another version, an undistorted look in the camera can be pre-distorted to
accommodate a downward look in the projector.
The general case of a distorted look in the camera and pre-distortion (i.e.,
rectification) on the print can be accommodated.
That's a separate issue. The original question dealt only with 70mm
Cinerama, not Todd-AO.

Jim Nason
Peter H.
2004-01-15 16:54:57 UTC
Permalink
That's a separate issue. The original question dealt only with 70mm Cinerama,
not Todd-AO.
LOL!

70mm Cinerama is Todd-AO, just under a new name.

In the same way Panavision (35) is CinemaScope (35) under a new name.
Allan Young
2004-01-16 07:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter H.
I wasn't aware that rectified prints were only produced for the UP70 films - I
was under the impression that the flat 70mm movies had rectified prints
produced too.
They do.
The patent literature contains descriptions of several methods of
rectification. These patents are by O'brien, et. al., and were assigned to
A.O., one of the creaters of Todd-AO.
In one version, a distorted upward or downward look in the camera can be
corrected.
In another version, an undistorted look in the camera can be pre-distorted to
accommodate a downward look in the projector.
The general case of a distorted look in the camera and pre-distortion (i.e.,
rectification) on the print can be accommodated.
Okay, I'm confused again ! If flat 70mm films were released with
Cinerama rectified prints, why was the assumption made that "Khartoum"
was the last one ?

And which flat 70mm films had rectified prints ? Or was the patent
filed and never used for flat 70mm ?

Allan.
Martin Hart
2004-01-16 14:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Young
Post by Peter H.
I wasn't aware that rectified prints were only produced for the UP70 films - I
was under the impression that the flat 70mm movies had rectified prints
produced too.
They do.
The patent literature contains descriptions of several methods of
rectification. These patents are by O'brien, et. al., and were assigned to
A.O., one of the creaters of Todd-AO.
In one version, a distorted upward or downward look in the camera can be
corrected.
In another version, an undistorted look in the camera can be pre-distorted to
accommodate a downward look in the projector.
The general case of a distorted look in the camera and pre-distortion (i.e.,
rectification) on the print can be accommodated.
Okay, I'm confused again ! If flat 70mm films were released with
Cinerama rectified prints, why was the assumption made that "Khartoum"
was the last one ?
And which flat 70mm films had rectified prints ? Or was the patent
filed and never used for flat 70mm ?
Allan.
While there were provisions made for rectifying flat films, there's a
paucity of evidence that it was ever put into practice. It was necessary
to rectify Ultra Panavision 70 but you could get by without it in flat
films. This is really a lot more complex topic than can be covered in a
few words on this newsgroup.

I have rectified and flat Cinerama film in my collection. Only the UP70
is rectified.

Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Allan Young
2004-01-19 14:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
While there were provisions made for rectifying flat films, there's a
paucity of evidence that it was ever put into practice. It was necessary
to rectify Ultra Panavision 70 but you could get by without it in flat
films. This is really a lot more complex topic than can be covered in a
few words on this newsgroup.
I have rectified and flat Cinerama film in my collection. Only the UP70
is rectified.
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Having seen an un-rectified UP70 print of Ben Hur on the Cinerama
screen, I'm not convinced that it was "necessary" to rectify the
prints due to the screen stretch, but I see the point. Thanks again,
Marty.
Martin Hart
2004-01-19 20:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Young
Having seen an un-rectified UP70 print of Ben Hur on the Cinerama
screen, I'm not convinced that it was "necessary" to rectify the
prints due to the screen stretch, but I see the point. Thanks again,
Marty.
In order to make a flat film conform to a screen with a 146 degree curve
with no distortion along the curvature you do need to rectify the image.
From the position of the center booth, the screen has an apparent 2:1
aspect ratio. UP70's 2.76:1 A/R will require substantial cropping for
projection onto the curved screen and there will be a lot of stretch on
the sides. (Note that most UP70 films can hold up to quite a bit of
horizontal cropping and "Ben-Hur" is no exception.) There is adequate
information in that 2.75:1 image to reformat it into a shape that is
closely compatible with the 2.59:1 A/R of the original Cinerama screen.
Following the demise of three-panel Cinerama, the curvature was reduced
to 120 degrees and the use of either UP70 or flat 70mm is accommodated
much more easily with the lesser curve.

Where were you able to see an anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" on a
Cinerama screen? I'd like to see it that way myself.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Jim Nason
2004-01-19 22:59:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
Post by Allan Young
Having seen an un-rectified UP70 print of Ben Hur on the Cinerama
screen, I'm not convinced that it was "necessary" to rectify the
prints due to the screen stretch, but I see the point. Thanks again,
Marty.
In order to make a flat film conform to a screen with a 146 degree curve
with no distortion along the curvature you do need to rectify the image.
From the position of the center booth, the screen has an apparent 2:1
aspect ratio. UP70's 2.76:1 A/R will require substantial cropping for
projection onto the curved screen and there will be a lot of stretch on
the sides. (Note that most UP70 films can hold up to quite a bit of
horizontal cropping and "Ben-Hur" is no exception.) There is adequate
information in that 2.75:1 image to reformat it into a shape that is
closely compatible with the 2.59:1 A/R of the original Cinerama screen.
Following the demise of three-panel Cinerama, the curvature was reduced
to 120 degrees and the use of either UP70 or flat 70mm is accommodated
much more easily with the lesser curve.
Where were you able to see an anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" on a
Cinerama screen? I'd like to see it that way myself.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
I'd like to see it, too. In fact, I wish the Dome could convince Warners to
make a new anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" and send it to select theaters as
was done recently with "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World."

Jim Nason
RICHVINCE
2004-01-20 06:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Nason
Post by Martin Hart
Where were you able to see an anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" on a
Cinerama screen? I'd like to see it that way myself.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
I'd like to see it, too. In fact, I wish the Dome could convince Warners to
make a new anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" and send it to select theaters as
was done recently with "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World."
Jim Nason
We ran one at the Cooper Theatre in Denver just before it closed years ago.
Don't recall whether it was rectified or not (probably not) but I do recall
thinking to myself as I watched "This is IT. I'll never have this chance
again."

Rich
Lincoln Spector
2004-01-20 02:46:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
In order to make a flat film conform to a screen with a 146 degree curve
with no distortion along the curvature you do need to rectify the image.
It's probably impossible to project a single strip of film on a 146 degree
curve without SOME distortion. The question is: How much does the
rectification fix? I don't recall a lot of complaints about the recent It's
a Mad...World unrectified presentation.

Another question about this distortion: How much could be fixed by a really
good projection lens? Could a projection lens squeeze the sides of the
image? Could it throw the sides a longer focal length, so that you don't
have to crop vertically in the center?

Lincoln
MLUTTHANS
2004-01-20 06:28:48 UTC
Permalink
This is such a hairy topic, distortion on curved screens, for a number of
reasons. First, every screen/projector set-up produces *some* distortion, even
on a flat screen. Deeply-curved screens are another creature altogether.
Distortion (aside from the uniquely-3-strip forms like join lines and bent
horizons) was less obvious in their original use for 3-panel Cinerama, since
each projector was shooting onto a screen which was only about a 50-degree
curve, which is quite shallow, and which reduced distortions such as keystoning
due to off-center projection angles. Problems multiply when you try to shoot a
wide, rectangular image from a single position onto that same deeply curved
screen. To the projector's "eye" the screen is bow-tie shaped, not
rectangular, since the center of the screen is so much further away than the
edges. (Forgive me; I know this is old hat to most of you!) The center looks
much shorter in height. This brings up the age-old debate of: Do you crop the
image to the shape of a bowtie in the aperture, losing picture content but
keeping screen height consistent, or do you project the entire image and mask
the screen on the sides, reducing the "wow"-ness of a curved-screen effect.
Neither is perfect. Regarding Mad World, I found it interesting-- but not a
bad thing-- that at the Cinerama Dome they ran the film with no aperture plate,
but with significant masking on each side. (See
http://hometown.aol.com/mlutthans/myhomepage/photo.html for a crude pictoral
representation.) Note that Mad World in unrectified UP presentation in October
used the ENTIRE width as used for 3-panel Cinerama, which in the dome is
roughly 120 degrees. Some sources have said 126. Regardless, it is well short
of 146. If you continued to enlarge the IAMMMMW image to fill the height, it
would also expand outward. I'm not sure that it would have filled an entire
146 degrees if enlarged and cropped in the aperture, but it sure would have
come close. Some very, VERY rough math: The image size would have to be
enlarged by roughly 25% to entirely fill the height of the screen at the
edges-- which was standard practice at many Cinerama Theatres in the 1960s.
(Butterfly apertures were common.) If they did that in the dome for IAMMMW,
the width would have also increased by the same percentage (or even more-- this
is anamorphic U-P) as the height, but since projected image width and actual
screen width do not correspond on a deeply curved screen, we would probably be
talking about roughly a 15-20% increase in width. Let's say 15% to be
conservative. A 15% wider portion of the arc would come out to 138 degrees
filled, and 20 % would be 144 degrees filled, top to bottom. Of course, about
20-25% of the image would be missing from the middle of the picture, but for
some reason, most people don't seem to mind that. (It drives me up the wall,
but I'll admit that I'm in the minority.)

Distortions on curved screens also have so much to do with where YOU SIT in the
building, and even the rectification process only decreased the perceived
distortion in some seats. It added distortion in others! Additionally,
IAMMMMW was the first single-film "Cinerama" movie, and was probably projected
with considerable keystoning in many facilities, since it was pretty common for
Cinerama 3-strip facilities to have slightly high (under about 4 or 5 degrees
off-center) projection booths. (Again, it didn't much matter for 3-strip.)
I've got blueprints for the Cinerama in Honolulu, for example, and it had a +2
degree angle of projection. The Martin in Seattle had a zero-degree or "dead
center" projection, as did the D-150 just down the street. Oddly enough, some
architects didn't much worry about this problem even when a building was
conceived for single-strip 70mm, as the final 70mm Cinerama theatre built, the
Southcenter in Tukwila, WA, had about a 4-degree downward projection -- and
significant keystoning, especially in 70mm and scope. What I'm trying to point
out is that many people equate curved screens with "smiley face" distortion.
This is often evident, but it can be avoided with proper theatre design. The
folks at D-150 were very aware of this, for instance, and sought to always have
dead-on projection.

A few final ramblings:
1. 2001 at the Cinerama in Seattle used the butterfly aperture. The opening
copyright ran almost off the screen at the bottom. I mean it was right on the
edge above the carpet. The image filled about 120 degrees of the arc, with
black masking dropped along either side, as you would expect. 2. One scene
about IAMMMMW has always made me question its original presentation. If indeed
butterfly apertures were used, how did that shot in the 2nd half when all the
"heads" of the main characters are shown looking down into the big hole under
the Big W look? Were the heads on the bottom (and/or top) of the shot just get
cut off? That seems to be a shot which really cries out "full aperture" to me.
3. This is purely a matter of semantics, but it seems to me that many of the
problems of projecting onto a curved screen are framing issues as opposed to
distortion issues.
4. It would be great if there was a lens that would increase the height of the
projected image gradually as you approaced the edge of the image to correspond
with the consistent height of the curved screen. Maybe someday....but of
course, it would actually be adding distortion to the image! It might look
good though.

I've given myself laryngitis of the digits. Sorry about the babble.

--Matt Lutthans, Seattle
Martin Hart
2004-01-20 16:14:09 UTC
Permalink
Your points are right on target, Matt. It is unfortunate that the folks
at Cinerama were sucked in by false promises on the part of film makers
that were signing up to release their product through the Cinerama
theatres. The concept of single lens Cinerama, which the company had so
hoped would work out, was based on shooting in spherical 70mm and using
wide angle lenses that have an inherent pin cushion distortion. The
single film projection of such a picture on the deeply curved screen (it
was still 146 degrees at the time of the conception) would result in
photographic distortions being compensated for by projection
distortions. But the fact is that it's no easier to shoot a story film
using only an ultra wide angle lens than it is with a three-strip wide
angle arrangement. Few shots contained in any of the single film
Cinerama presentations were over 70 degrees wide. Most were
significantly narrower than that.

Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Post by MLUTTHANS
This is such a hairy topic, distortion on curved screens, for a number of
reasons. First, every screen/projector set-up produces *some* distortion, even
on a flat screen. Deeply-curved screens are another creature altogether.
Distortion (aside from the uniquely-3-strip forms like join lines and bent
horizons) was less obvious in their original use for 3-panel Cinerama, since
each projector was shooting onto a screen which was only about a 50-degree
curve, which is quite shallow, and which reduced distortions such as keystoning
due to off-center projection angles. Problems multiply when you try to shoot a
wide, rectangular image from a single position onto that same deeply curved
screen. To the projector's "eye" the screen is bow-tie shaped, not
rectangular, since the center of the screen is so much further away than the
edges. (Forgive me; I know this is old hat to most of you!) The center looks
much shorter in height. This brings up the age-old debate of: Do you crop the
image to the shape of a bowtie in the aperture, losing picture content but
keeping screen height consistent, or do you project the entire image and mask
the screen on the sides, reducing the "wow"-ness of a curved-screen effect.
Neither is perfect. Regarding Mad World, I found it interesting-- but not a
bad thing-- that at the Cinerama Dome they ran the film with no aperture plate,
but with significant masking on each side. (See
http://hometown.aol.com/mlutthans/myhomepage/photo.html for a crude pictoral
representation.) Note that Mad World in unrectified UP presentation in October
used the ENTIRE width as used for 3-panel Cinerama, which in the dome is
roughly 120 degrees. Some sources have said 126. Regardless, it is well short
of 146. If you continued to enlarge the IAMMMMW image to fill the height, it
would also expand outward. I'm not sure that it would have filled an entire
146 degrees if enlarged and cropped in the aperture, but it sure would have
come close. Some very, VERY rough math: The image size would have to be
enlarged by roughly 25% to entirely fill the height of the screen at the
edges-- which was standard practice at many Cinerama Theatres in the 1960s.
(Butterfly apertures were common.) If they did that in the dome for IAMMMW,
the width would have also increased by the same percentage (or even more-- this
is anamorphic U-P) as the height, but since projected image width and actual
screen width do not correspond on a deeply curved screen, we would probably be
talking about roughly a 15-20% increase in width. Let's say 15% to be
conservative. A 15% wider portion of the arc would come out to 138 degrees
filled, and 20 % would be 144 degrees filled, top to bottom. Of course, about
20-25% of the image would be missing from the middle of the picture, but for
some reason, most people don't seem to mind that. (It drives me up the wall,
but I'll admit that I'm in the minority.)
Distortions on curved screens also have so much to do with where YOU SIT in the
building, and even the rectification process only decreased the perceived
distortion in some seats. It added distortion in others! Additionally,
IAMMMMW was the first single-film "Cinerama" movie, and was probably projected
with considerable keystoning in many facilities, since it was pretty common for
Cinerama 3-strip facilities to have slightly high (under about 4 or 5 degrees
off-center) projection booths. (Again, it didn't much matter for 3-strip.)
I've got blueprints for the Cinerama in Honolulu, for example, and it had a +2
degree angle of projection. The Martin in Seattle had a zero-degree or "dead
center" projection, as did the D-150 just down the street. Oddly enough, some
architects didn't much worry about this problem even when a building was
conceived for single-strip 70mm, as the final 70mm Cinerama theatre built, the
Southcenter in Tukwila, WA, had about a 4-degree downward projection -- and
significant keystoning, especially in 70mm and scope. What I'm trying to point
out is that many people equate curved screens with "smiley face" distortion.
This is often evident, but it can be avoided with proper theatre design. The
folks at D-150 were very aware of this, for instance, and sought to always have
dead-on projection.
1. 2001 at the Cinerama in Seattle used the butterfly aperture. The opening
copyright ran almost off the screen at the bottom. I mean it was right on the
edge above the carpet. The image filled about 120 degrees of the arc, with
black masking dropped along either side, as you would expect. 2. One scene
about IAMMMMW has always made me question its original presentation. If indeed
butterfly apertures were used, how did that shot in the 2nd half when all the
"heads" of the main characters are shown looking down into the big hole under
the Big W look? Were the heads on the bottom (and/or top) of the shot just get
cut off? That seems to be a shot which really cries out "full aperture" to me.
3. This is purely a matter of semantics, but it seems to me that many of the
problems of projecting onto a curved screen are framing issues as opposed to
distortion issues.
4. It would be great if there was a lens that would increase the height of the
projected image gradually as you approaced the edge of the image to correspond
with the consistent height of the curved screen. Maybe someday....but of
course, it would actually be adding distortion to the image! It might look
good though.
I've given myself laryngitis of the digits. Sorry about the babble.
--Matt Lutthans, Seattle
Peter H.
2004-01-20 18:09:21 UTC
Permalink
The concept of single lens Cinerama, which the company had so hoped would work
out, was based on shooting in spherical 70mm and using wide angle lenses that
have an inherent pin cushion distortion.
Wide angle lenses are more likely to have barrel distortion than pincushion
distortion.

This can be seen in a fish-eye, which is a pathological example of barrel
distortion.
Martin Hart
2004-01-21 00:17:02 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@mb-m03.aol.com>, peterh5322
@aol.comminch says...
Post by Peter H.
The concept of single lens Cinerama, which the company had so hoped would work
out, was based on shooting in spherical 70mm and using wide angle lenses that
have an inherent pin cushion distortion.
Wide angle lenses are more likely to have barrel distortion than pincushion
distortion.
This can be seen in a fish-eye, which is a pathological example of barrel
distortion.
You are absolutely correct. I dropped in the wrong term. But, you know,
my mom's pincushions never looked like any distortion I've ever seen. I
can't remember what any of my wives pincushions looked like, and I've
never owned one myself. Anyway, yes, it was barrel distortion that was
what Cinerama's rather complex single lens projection scheme would have
substantially removed.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Allan Young
2004-01-20 09:09:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
In order to make a flat film conform to a screen with a 146 degree curve
with no distortion along the curvature you do need to rectify the image.
From the position of the center booth, the screen has an apparent 2:1
aspect ratio. UP70's 2.76:1 A/R will require substantial cropping for
projection onto the curved screen and there will be a lot of stretch on
the sides. (Note that most UP70 films can hold up to quite a bit of
horizontal cropping and "Ben-Hur" is no exception.) There is adequate
information in that 2.75:1 image to reformat it into a shape that is
closely compatible with the 2.59:1 A/R of the original Cinerama screen.
Following the demise of three-panel Cinerama, the curvature was reduced
to 120 degrees and the use of either UP70 or flat 70mm is accommodated
much more easily with the lesser curve.
Where were you able to see an anamorphic print of "Ben-Hur" on a
Cinerama screen? I'd like to see it that way myself.
An old Swedish Camera 65 print of "Ben Hur" was shown at the
Widescreen Weekend in Bradford a few years back.

I agree that rectification of the image is needed to (at least
partially) eliminate distortion. But when "Ben Hur" was shown on the
curve, the fact that it was an anamorphic print didn't detract much.
The centre of the image was admittedly squeezed but not to such an
extent that it was irritating. The edges, however, looked fine - in
fact, I'd argue that the extreme edges of the screen looked less
distorted than when flat 70mm is projected. The Last Valley, for
instance, really didn't look right on the curve, especially at the
extremes.
Martin Hart
2004-01-20 16:07:18 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>, ***@lycos.co.uk says...

<SNIP>
Post by Allan Young
An old Swedish Camera 65 print of "Ben Hur" was shown at the
Widescreen Weekend in Bradford a few years back.
I agree that rectification of the image is needed to (at least
partially) eliminate distortion. But when "Ben Hur" was shown on the
curve, the fact that it was an anamorphic print didn't detract much.
The centre of the image was admittedly squeezed but not to such an
extent that it was irritating. The edges, however, looked fine - in
fact, I'd argue that the extreme edges of the screen looked less
distorted than when flat 70mm is projected. The Last Valley, for
instance, really didn't look right on the curve, especially at the
extremes.
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
Allan Young
2004-01-23 17:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Hart
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.

Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
Martin Hart
2004-01-23 22:30:15 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@posting.google.com>,
***@lycos.co.uk says...

<SNIP>
Post by Allan Young
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.
Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one around here with an imperfect
memory.
--
Marty
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com
The American WideScreen Museum
mdmjcc2
2004-01-29 22:48:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan Young
Post by Martin Hart
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.
Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
This is a total sidebar to this thread, but it concerns me greatly
that anyone who has a serious interest in film would mis-spell the
name of a film. This mistake happens frequently with the afore
mentioned firm - - -
it is "Ben-Hur" not Ben Hur. The title refers to the family name - or
"son of Hur" not Benjamin Hur. How would you feel if they called you
el-Young?
manitou910
2004-01-29 23:33:11 UTC
Permalink
How would you feel if they called you el-young?
He'd feel like a zapped character from "Lawrence Of Arabia".











C.
Bill Kretzel
2004-01-30 05:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdmjcc2
Post by Allan Young
Post by Martin Hart
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.
Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
This is a total sidebar to this thread, but it concerns me greatly
that anyone who has a serious interest in film would mis-spell the
name of a film. This mistake happens frequently with the afore
mentioned firm - - -
it is "Ben-Hur" not Ben Hur. The title refers to the family name - or
"son of Hur" not Benjamin Hur. How would you feel if they called you
el-Young?
Ahem, firm?
Steve Kraus
2004-02-05 13:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kretzel
Ahem, firm?
Ahem, 27 lines of quotation to append 2 words?
Bill Kretzel
2004-02-06 04:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Kraus
Post by Bill Kretzel
Ahem, firm?
Ahem, 27 lines of quotation to append 2 words?
Well, ya see, the person who posted the message I was responding to was
makin' a big deal about an overlooked orthographic finepoint, but in doing so
he/she committed a typographical error, oops...
But then, if anyone should know that irony is NOT appreciated in this
group, it is me!
Post by Steve Kraus
This is a total sidebar to this thread, but it concerns me greatly
that anyone who has a serious interest in film would mis-spell the
name of a film. This mistake happens frequently with the afore
mentioned firm - - -
it is "Ben-Hur" not Ben Hur. The title refers to the family name - or
"son of Hur" not Benjamin Hur. How would you feel if they called you
el-Young?
mdmjcc2
2004-02-10 18:14:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kretzel
Post by mdmjcc2
Post by Allan Young
Post by Martin Hart
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.
Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
This is a total sidebar to this thread, but it concerns me greatly
that anyone who has a serious interest in film would mis-spell the
name of a film. This mistake happens frequently with the afore
mentioned firm - - -
it is "Ben-Hur" not Ben Hur. The title refers to the family name - or
"son of Hur" not Benjamin Hur. How would you feel if they called you
el-Young?
Ahem, firm?
you got it - annoying yes
mdmjcc2
2004-02-10 18:14:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Kretzel
Post by mdmjcc2
Post by Allan Young
Post by Martin Hart
If an anamorphic 70mm print is projected (idiotically) with spherical
lenses, then the picture certainly will have less distortion, depending
on where you sit, on the sides, but even the minor 25% squeeze is
noticeable and objectionable to me. There is no need for Bradford to
project Ultra Panavision through spherical lenses. There are adjustable
anamorphics that can be cleaned up and put into service. If they'll pay
the shipping cost I'll give them a pair. The Cinerama Dome borrowed a
lens from Panavision for their presentation of MAD WORLD in Ultra
Panavision 70.
Many apologies to all; I just checked with Bill Lawrence at the
Bradford cinema and my memory was incorrect. The "Ben Hur" print was
indeed projected with anamorphic lenses.
Well, it *was* five years ago, and Yorkshire beer is the best in the
world :o)
This is a total sidebar to this thread, but it concerns me greatly
that anyone who has a serious interest in film would mis-spell the
name of a film. This mistake happens frequently with the afore
mentioned firm - - -
it is "Ben-Hur" not Ben Hur. The title refers to the family name - or
"son of Hur" not Benjamin Hur. How would you feel if they called you
el-Young?
Ahem, firm?
you got it - annoying yes

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