All Cinerama Travelogues To Be Restored (Press Release)

[Mike]

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/cinerama/index.htm

Great news but does this mean we won't see DVDs and Blu-rays of "This
Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" until after Cinerama Festival in
Hollywood, tentatively scheduled for October 2012 according to press
release?

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Mike
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/cinerama/index.htm
Great news but does this mean we won't see DVDs and Blu-rays of "This
Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" until after Cinerama Festival in
Hollywood, tentatively scheduled for October 2012 according to press
release?

What is the source of the new Transfers? Original camera negative or
what?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Martin Hart]

In article <3b815495-e39a-47cb-a7e1-

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Mike
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/cinerama/index.htm
Great news but does this mean we won't see DVDs and Blu-rays of "This
Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" until after Cinerama Festival in
Hollywood, tentatively scheduled for October 2012 according to press
release?

What is the source of the new Transfers? Original camera negative or
what?
Regards,
Peter Mason

Once more I'm responding to a post that's several months old but I've
been out of circulation and it looks like Peter didn't get the
information he was requesting.

The three-panel travelogues are being "restored" from a wide variety of
sources depending on the conditions of the elements and the budgetary
constraints that apply. Here is the situation as of this moment:

"Windjammer" was recreated from a 35mm anamorphic copy that was in
Denmark. A number of sections of the OCN were missing or damaged. The
35mm anamorphic print was badly faded but in good shape physically and
there was enough of all three color channels to allow them to be put
back into balance. I have a DVD copy of the final version and I think
it looks substantially better than the digital presentation shown at the
Dome last year.

"This Is Cinerama" was recreated from the 65mm composite negative
created in the early 70s. The three strip OCN is severely worn and
contains black slugs and replacement footage. Working from the 65mm dupe
provided more consistent color balance but it was made from a badly
scarred print. A tremendous amount of effort was put forth to removed
dirt scratches and other flaws that are printed into the 65mm negative.
The resulting image is really good and the panels are blended better
than could be done with three projector presentation. I have run
evaluation Blu-rays of "This Is Cinerama" and they look sensational.

Before I forget it, I should mention that the primary purpose of all
this work is to make the films available on DVD and Blu-ray. The discs
will feature all overture, prologue, intermission, and walk-out segments
and everything is in Smilebox, including closed curtains, which open and
close very theatrically at the appropriate points.

"Cinerama Holiday" and "South Seas Adventure" are being digitally
recreated from the three-strip negatives. The negatives are being
scanned at Image Trend in Austin, TX and are undergoing substantial
manipulation to correct for distortion created by the original camera
lenses, level out the density gradients, rebalance and restore color.
The demonstration scenes that I've seen are quite good.

Work has not yet started on "Search for Paradise" but it should be done
in the same manner as CH and SSA.

The sound, in those films that I've run here at home, is heart thumping
wide dynamic range audio remixed into DD 5.1.

There's more news to come.

Marty

[Richard]

Post by Martin Hart
Before I forget it, I should mention that the primary purpose of all
this work is to make the films available on DVD and Blu-ray.

Thanks for the update.

Do you already know when ? 2012 ? 2013 ?
Also, do you know if those Blu-ray will be available
here in Europe ?

[Martin Hart]

In article <4ec7e719$***@news.stben.net>, ***@skynet.be
says...

Post by Richard

Post by Martin Hart
Before I forget it, I should mention that the primary purpose of all
this work is to make the films available on DVD and Blu-ray.

Thanks for the update.
Do you already know when ? 2012 ? 2013 ?
Also, do you know if those Blu-ray will be available
here in Europe ?

Plans are to have everything ready to go by around September 2012.
Cinerama will turn 60 years old in 2012.

Marty

[Mutley]

Post by Martin Hart
In article <3b815495-e39a-47cb-a7e1-

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Mike
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/cinerama/index.htm
Great news but does this mean we won't see DVDs and Blu-rays of "This
Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" until after Cinerama Festival in
Hollywood, tentatively scheduled for October 2012 according to press
release?

What is the source of the new Transfers? Original camera negative or
what?
Regards,
Peter Mason

Once more I'm responding to a post that's several months old but I've
been out of circulation and it looks like Peter didn't get the
information he was requesting.
The three-panel travelogues are being "restored" from a wide variety of
sources depending on the conditions of the elements and the budgetary
"Windjammer" was recreated from a 35mm anamorphic copy that was in
Denmark. A number of sections of the OCN were missing or damaged. The
35mm anamorphic print was badly faded but in good shape physically and
there was enough of all three color channels to allow them to be put
back into balance. I have a DVD copy of the final version and I think
it looks substantially better than the digital presentation shown at the
Dome last year.
"This Is Cinerama" was recreated from the 65mm composite negative
created in the early 70s. The three strip OCN is severely worn and
contains black slugs and replacement footage. Working from the 65mm dupe
provided more consistent color balance but it was made from a badly
scarred print. A tremendous amount of effort was put forth to removed
dirt scratches and other flaws that are printed into the 65mm negative.
The resulting image is really good and the panels are blended better
than could be done with three projector presentation. I have run
evaluation Blu-rays of "This Is Cinerama" and they look sensational.
Before I forget it, I should mention that the primary purpose of all
this work is to make the films available on DVD and Blu-ray. The discs
will feature all overture, prologue, intermission, and walk-out segments
and everything is in Smilebox, including closed curtains, which open and
close very theatrically at the appropriate points.
"Cinerama Holiday" and "South Seas Adventure" are being digitally
recreated from the three-strip negatives. The negatives are being
scanned at Image Trend in Austin, TX and are undergoing substantial
manipulation to correct for distortion created by the original camera
lenses, level out the density gradients, rebalance and restore color.
The demonstration scenes that I've seen are quite good.
Work has not yet started on "Search for Paradise" but it should be done
in the same manner as CH and SSA.
The sound, in those films that I've run here at home, is heart thumping
wide dynamic range audio remixed into DD 5.1.
There's more news to come.
Marty

Thanx Marty for the update. I hope the audio is better than the Blu
ray of HTWWW which I found a little disappointing compared to the
real Cinerama sound..

[Martin Hart]

Post by Mutley

Post by Martin Hart
In article <3b815495-e39a-47cb-a7e1-

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Mike
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/cinerama/index.htm
Great news but does this mean we won't see DVDs and Blu-rays of "This
Is Cinerama" and "Windjammer" until after Cinerama Festival in
Hollywood, tentatively scheduled for October 2012 according to press
release?

What is the source of the new Transfers? Original camera negative or
what?
Regards,
Peter Mason

Once more I'm responding to a post that's several months old but I've
been out of circulation and it looks like Peter didn't get the
information he was requesting.
The three-panel travelogues are being "restored" from a wide variety of
sources depending on the conditions of the elements and the budgetary
"Windjammer" was recreated from a 35mm anamorphic copy that was in
Denmark. A number of sections of the OCN were missing or damaged. The
35mm anamorphic print was badly faded but in good shape physically and
there was enough of all three color channels to allow them to be put
back into balance. I have a DVD copy of the final version and I think
it looks substantially better than the digital presentation shown at the

Thanx Marty for the update. I hope the audio is better than the Blu
ray of HTWWW which I found a little disappointing compared to the
real Cinerama sound..

I've heard from one other person about a problem with the audio on the
Blu-ray. I can't explain this because it sounds great on my system.

The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

And while we're on the subject of 5.1 sound on Blu-rays, last week I
finally got around to viewing "The Bridge on the River Kwai" Blu-ray on
the big system here. I have to compliment the folks at Columbia for
finally creating a faux stereo soundtrack that's worth listening to. The
last release of the "restored" film on laser disc was godawful,
consisting of mostly bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, and more bugs in the
surround channels. The Blu-ray is superb in all respects and shows
details in the image that have a bearing on the story. Good stuff.

Marty

[Derek Gee]

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1? There's quite a few discs with 7.1
soundtracks now...

Derek

[r***@sbcglobal.net]

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1?  There's quite a few discs with 7.1
soundtracks now...
Derek

That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

[Derek Gee]

Post by r***@sbcglobal.net

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1? There's quite a few discs with
7.1
soundtracks now...
Derek

That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

You can still do it. Keep three of the five front channels as your Left,
Right, and Center. Make the outer pair of the five your Left and Right
surround, and make the original back surrounds your Left & Right back
surround channels. You might have to fiddle with that depending on the
scene, but it seems like it would work.

Derek

[Garan Grey]

On Nov 30 2011, 6:22 pm, "Derek Gee"

Post by r***@sbcglobal.net

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1? There's quite a few discs with
7.1
soundtracks now...
Derek

That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

You can still do it.  Keep three of the five front channels as your Left,
Right, and Center. Make the outer pair of the five your Left and Right
surround, and make the original back surrounds your Left & Right back
surround channels.  You might have to fiddle with that depending on the
scene, but it seems like it would work.
Derek

So you are proposing that they take channels that were created for the
far ends of the screen, and throw them out to the middle sides of the
auditorium... placing sounds into the room that were supposed to be
on the screen is not gonna happen if the folks are trying to correctly
recreate the film..

[Derek Gee]

"Garan Grey" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:8b6d893b-6fdc-4006-a84c-***@v14g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 30 2011, 6:22 pm, "Derek Gee"

Post by r***@sbcglobal.net

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1? There's quite a few discs with
7.1
soundtracks now...
Derek

That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

You can still do it. Keep three of the five front channels as your Left,
Right, and Center. Make the outer pair of the five your Left and Right
surround, and make the original back surrounds your Left & Right back
surround channels. You might have to fiddle with that depending on the
scene, but it seems like it would work.
Derek
So you are proposing that they take channels that were created for the
far ends of the screen, and throw them out to the middle sides of the
auditorium... placing sounds into the room that were supposed to be
on the screen is not gonna happen if the folks are trying to correctly
recreate the film..

Strange, I made that post a month ago...

It would depend on what the sounds were, but since it all has to be remixed
anyway, someone's going to have to listen to the soundtrack scene by scene
and determine if it would work.

Quit being contrary or I'm going to kill file you...

Derek

[Martin Hart]

In article <4f0145e6$0$1535$***@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
***@twmi.INVALID.rr.com says...


<SNIP>

Post by Derek Gee

Post by r***@sbcglobal.net
That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

You can still do it. Keep three of the five front channels as your Left,
Right, and Center. Make the outer pair of the five your Left and Right
surround, and make the original back surrounds your Left & Right back
surround channels. You might have to fiddle with that depending on the
scene, but it seems like it would work.
Derek
So you are proposing that they take channels that were created for the
far ends of the screen, and throw them out to the middle sides of the
auditorium... placing sounds into the room that were supposed to be
on the screen is not gonna happen if the folks are trying to correctly
recreate the film..

Strange, I made that post a month ago...
It would depend on what the sounds were, but since it all has to be remixed
anyway, someone's going to have to listen to the soundtrack scene by scene
and determine if it would work.
Quit being contrary or I'm going to kill file you...
Derek

Authoring a DVD, Blu-ray, or any other digital media for home use in
anything other than the prescribed channel layout is a bit senseless.
This is something done in commercial theatrical productions where
trained technicians rechannel things as prescribed by film distributors.
But for home use it's just totally impractical. A 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 audio
program needn't be altered for home presentation of any theatrical
format. Systems using five screen channels mix down to three quite
nicely, (a good many began as three channels anyway), and surround
channels, of which most theatrical motion pictures carried only one, can
be mixed into the 2, 3, or 4 surrounds of the home video system. No
point in reinventing the home video wheel when it's not necessary and
totally impractical too boot.

Considering that most of the great unwashed masses place their left and
right channel speakers way beyond the sides of their monster 40" flat
screen it would be really dumb to place channels 1 & 5 from a 70mm or
Cinerama production into the left and right surrounds.

My screen is a scant 12' wide and three screen channels works jes' fine,
without holes between the center and sides like you'd have if your
screen was 70' wide.

Oh, one last word on mixing those big multitrack stereo films down to
generic digital: Other than a couple of exceptions, all 70mm films
carried a single surround channel, just like CinemaScope's 35mm four
track. So nothing special need be done other than mixing screen channels
into three tracks, which, as I said may not even be necessary since the
mag masters were 3 track plus surround in many cases anyway. As for
Cinerama, with it's oddball switching of channels 6&7, I don't think
anyone has found the cue sheets that says when to alter the speaker
layout during those presentations. The last two Cinerama films, GRIMM
and WEST, did not use any surround switching at all.

Happy New Year Everyone!
Marty

[Derek Gee]

Post by Martin Hart
Authoring a DVD, Blu-ray, or any other digital media for home use in
anything other than the prescribed channel layout is a bit senseless.
This is something done in commercial theatrical productions where
trained technicians rechannel things as prescribed by film distributors.
But for home use it's just totally impractical. A 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 audio
program needn't be altered for home presentation of any theatrical
format. Systems using five screen channels mix down to three quite
nicely, (a good many began as three channels anyway), and surround
channels, of which most theatrical motion pictures carried only one, can
be mixed into the 2, 3, or 4 surrounds of the home video system. No
point in reinventing the home video wheel when it's not necessary and
totally impractical too boot.

Looking at the specs for the DTS Neo:X surround system, it appears
Cinerama's sound system could be mapped exactly as it was designed. All
five front channels would be used, the L & R surrounds would be left silent,
and the rear discrete channels would carry the Cinerama rear channels.

Derek

[Martin Hart]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Martin Hart
Authoring a DVD, Blu-ray, or any other digital media for home use in
anything other than the prescribed channel layout is a bit senseless.
This is something done in commercial theatrical productions where
trained technicians rechannel things as prescribed by film distributors.
But for home use it's just totally impractical. A 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 audio
program needn't be altered for home presentation of any theatrical
format. Systems using five screen channels mix down to three quite
nicely, (a good many began as three channels anyway), and surround
channels, of which most theatrical motion pictures carried only one, can
be mixed into the 2, 3, or 4 surrounds of the home video system. No
point in reinventing the home video wheel when it's not necessary and
totally impractical too boot.

Looking at the specs for the DTS Neo:X surround system, it appears
Cinerama's sound system could be mapped exactly as it was designed. All
five front channels would be used, the L & R surrounds would be left silent,
and the rear discrete channels would carry the Cinerama rear channels.
Derek

Derek,
The left and right surround channels in Cinerama were used more than the
rear surround. Left and Right were carried by channels 6 & 7. When the
program called for rear surround a switch was thrown manually that fed
channel 6 into the left and right speakers and channel 7 was fed to the
rear.

But what is impractical is to move the left and right surround speakers
forward to the edge of the screen and move the front left and right
inwards towards the center. In home video reproduction there is
absolutely no need for five screen channels.

A Dolby or DTS 6.1 soundtrack can reproduce the seven channel
Cinerama/Cinemiracle sound very faithfully. Tracks 1&2 are mixed
together as are channels 4&5, thus creating the three screen channels.
Tracks 6&7 are fed to the left and right Dolby/DTS surrounds and when
the rear speakers need feeding then a matrix stereo signal in the left
and right surrounds can supply that.

When "Windjammer" had a digital presentation at the Cinerama Dome last
year the audience had no idea that they were hearing two channel Dolby
matrix stereo from the digital reproducer. Some people did notice that
the right and left channels had been reversed, a problem which was fixed
during the intermission. Reversed or not, the sound was very good with
excellent stereo imaging.

Marty

[Derek Gee]

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Martin Hart
Authoring a DVD, Blu-ray, or any other digital media for home use in
anything other than the prescribed channel layout is a bit senseless.
This is something done in commercial theatrical productions where
trained technicians rechannel things as prescribed by film
distributors.
But for home use it's just totally impractical. A 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 audio
program needn't be altered for home presentation of any theatrical
format. Systems using five screen channels mix down to three quite
nicely, (a good many began as three channels anyway), and surround
channels, of which most theatrical motion pictures carried only one, can
be mixed into the 2, 3, or 4 surrounds of the home video system. No
point in reinventing the home video wheel when it's not necessary and
totally impractical too boot.

Looking at the specs for the DTS Neo:X surround system, it appears
Cinerama's sound system could be mapped exactly as it was designed. All
five front channels would be used, the L & R surrounds would be left silent,
and the rear discrete channels would carry the Cinerama rear channels.
Derek

Derek,
The left and right surround channels in Cinerama were used more than the
rear surround. Left and Right were carried by channels 6 & 7. When the
program called for rear surround a switch was thrown manually that fed
channel 6 into the left and right speakers and channel 7 was fed to the
rear.
But what is impractical is to move the left and right surround speakers
forward to the edge of the screen and move the front left and right
inwards towards the center. In home video reproduction there is
absolutely no need for five screen channels.
A Dolby or DTS 6.1 soundtrack can reproduce the seven channel
Cinerama/Cinemiracle sound very faithfully. Tracks 1&2 are mixed
together as are channels 4&5, thus creating the three screen channels.
Tracks 6&7 are fed to the left and right Dolby/DTS surrounds and when
the rear speakers need feeding then a matrix stereo signal in the left
and right surrounds can supply that.

It seems I wasn't clear. The DTS Neo:X surround system allows the
soundtrack to be presented EXACTLY as it was mixed at Cinerama - we're not
moving the existing surround channels from where Cinerama placed them. In
it's 9.1 configuration, Neo has five front screen channels, Left and Right
side surrounds, as well as discrete Left Rear and Right Rear surrounds. The
sound mixer for the home video presentation could use the original sound
cues to route the appropriate channel to the correct speaker(s) at the
appropriate time. (Meaning Left/Right surrounds and/or Left/Right Rear
surrounds.)

This is a newer surround system, but my new Onkyo A/V receiver has it...
A separate 5.1 mix could be prepared for Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 playback.

Derek

[Garan Grey]

On Jan 2, 9:31 pm, Martin Hart

Considering that most of the great unwashed masses place >their left and right channel speakers way beyond the sides of >their monster 40" flat screen it would be really dumb to place >channels 1 & 5 from a 70mm or Cinerama production into the >left and right surrounds.
Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museumwww.widescreenmuseum.com

While I do wash regularly, I DO have the L & R speakers from my Onkyo
7.1 system about 2 feet from the edges of my 47" LED screen. Agreed
any sound that wasn't intended to originate on the screen end of the
room would be out of place in the side or rear...

If someone qualified wants to responsibly matrix the actual surround
channel a bit among the rear and sides to logically follow onscreen
action, cool.

But again, we're lucky to get the actual surround channel of a vintage
multichannel mix into the surrounds at all.

[Garan Grey]

Post by Derek Gee
On Nov 30 2011, 6:22 pm, "Derek Gee"

Post by r***@sbcglobal.net

Post by Martin Hart
The fact that the Cinerama sound has been mixed down from 7 discrete
channels to 5.1 should not impose a loss of fidelity or dynamic range.

I wonder why they didn't mix it to 7.1? There's quite a few discs with
7.1
soundtracks now...
Derek

That 7.1 has four tracks for side surrround and back surround. The 7
channel Cinerama had five in the front and two for the surround.

You can still do it. Keep three of the five front channels as your Left,
Right, and Center. Make the outer pair of the five your Left and Right
surround, and make the original back surrounds your Left & Right back
surround channels. You might have to fiddle with that depending on the
scene, but it seems like it would work.
Derek
So you are proposing that they take channels that were created for the
far ends of the screen, and throw them out to the middle sides of the
auditorium...  placing sounds into the room that were supposed to be
on the screen is not gonna happen if the folks are trying to correctly
recreate the film..

Strange, I made that post a month ago...
It would depend on what the sounds were, but since it all has to be remixed
anyway, someone's going to have to listen to the soundtrack scene by scene
and determine if it would work.
Quit being contrary or I'm going to kill file you...
Derek

If you can't take someone disagreeing with you, please be my guest.

Fact is, and I DO have some experience with this very process, most of
today's transfers are done by the numbers on a limited schedule,
without any actual knowledge of the product.

Especially on a film originating in 65/70mm with six-track sound, it
is most likely that the one original surround channel gets mixed into
the front rather than spread into the back and sides where it
belongs. (therefore the chances of Cinerama's 7 channel sound getting
anything better seem slim)

If this were Apocalypse Now, (which IIRC was the reportedly the first
to have matrixed surround around the room) there are more chances
someone will work to make it sound right.

However, pop in the BluRay of West Side Story and reference Marty's
site for where the first sounds (whistles) are supposed to come from.
Where do they Actually come from? This is a high profile release, yet
(check with someone you will believe: Mr. Harris) the original 6 track
mix that was recently accessed (not sure if I can say restored) with
its superior fidelity and correct mix, was inexplicably NOT used for
the Blu Ray, and several other glaring issues were overlooked. RAH
has spelled it all out rather well. And all they fixed was the
fadeout in the prologue.

So we are lucky if the single original surround channel gets put in
the right place. More often it won't be. You're lobbying for someone
to monkey around with the mix to relocate channels from where they
were supposed to go, so you can have discrete surround channels? To
repeat a favored phrase around here, "not gonna happen."

[Derek Gee]

Post by Martin Hart
"This Is Cinerama" was recreated from the 65mm composite negative
created in the early 70s. The three strip OCN is severely worn and
contains black slugs and replacement footage. Working from the 65mm dupe
provided more consistent color balance but it was made from a badly
scarred print. A tremendous amount of effort was put forth to removed
dirt scratches and other flaws that are printed into the 65mm negative.
The resulting image is really good and the panels are blended better
than could be done with three projector presentation. I have run
evaluation Blu-rays of "This Is Cinerama" and they look sensational.

Hi Marty,

Would you happen to know what the new 3-strip prints of "This Is Cinerama"
that were made a few years ago were struck from? The OCN or some other
negative?

Derek

[Martin Hart]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Martin Hart
"This Is Cinerama" was recreated from the 65mm composite negative
created in the early 70s. The three strip OCN is severely worn and
contains black slugs and replacement footage. Working from the 65mm dupe
provided more consistent color balance but it was made from a badly
scarred print. A tremendous amount of effort was put forth to removed
dirt scratches and other flaws that are printed into the 65mm negative.
The resulting image is really good and the panels are blended better
than could be done with three projector presentation. I have run
evaluation Blu-rays of "This Is Cinerama" and they look sensational.

Hi Marty,
Would you happen to know what the new 3-strip prints of "This Is Cinerama"
that were made a few years ago were struck from? The OCN or some other
negative?
Derek

Derek,
The two prints of "This Is Cinerama" that are located at the Cinerama
Dome in Hollywood and the Cinerama theatre in Seattle were made from
basically the OCN. I say "basically" because there is duplicate negative
sections and the Charlie panel contains one segment that had to be
recreated from the silver seps.

Considering what they had to work from, the prints look pretty good but
I think anyone that's familiar with them will find the upcoming Blu-ray
to look much better. Supposedly it will be possible to run the digital
composite in a Cinerama theatre or, with Smileboxing, a conventional
theatre.

Here's the skinny on the scanning process used in the three-strip films.
Each frame is scanned at 2K. That sounds kind of limp wristed but if you
remember that each frame is six perfs high you get the equivalent of 3K
per frame. Matching the three frames together gives you the equivalent
of 9K scanning. That's a lot of information. Warners did "Ben-Hur" from
the 65mm negative at 8K.

Marty

[Steve Kraus]

Post by Martin Hart
Here's the skinny on the scanning process used in the three-strip
films. Each frame is scanned at 2K. That sounds kind of limp wristed
but if you remember that each frame is six perfs high you get the
equivalent of 3K per frame. Matching the three frames together gives
you the equivalent of 9K scanning.

Sorta but you're jumbling together horizontal and vertical. Generally, 2K
means 2048H and 1080V (before any aspect ratio masking). 50% more vertical
would be 2048 x 1620. Times 3 would be about 6144 x 1620.

There's really no good way to put a K number on it since that's strictly a
horizontal figure and implies a vertical dimension that's not applicable
here.

Perhaps comparing megapixels would be better.

2K 2.11 MP* per frame
4K 8.44 MP per frame
8K 33.75 MP per frame

Cinerama, if above speculation is correct: 9.49 MP per triple frame set.

* Power of 2 Megapixels as in 1024 squared (1,048,576), not millions.

[Martin Hart]

Post by Steve Kraus

Post by Martin Hart
Here's the skinny on the scanning process used in the three-strip
films. Each frame is scanned at 2K. That sounds kind of limp wristed
but if you remember that each frame is six perfs high you get the
equivalent of 3K per frame. Matching the three frames together gives
you the equivalent of 9K scanning.

Sorta but you're jumbling together horizontal and vertical. Generally, 2K
means 2048H and 1080V (before any aspect ratio masking). 50% more vertical
would be 2048 x 1620. Times 3 would be about 6144 x 1620.
There's really no good way to put a K number on it since that's strictly a
horizontal figure and implies a vertical dimension that's not applicable
here.
Perhaps comparing megapixels would be better.
2K 2.11 MP* per frame
4K 8.44 MP per frame
8K 33.75 MP per frame
Cinerama, if above speculation is correct: 9.49 MP per triple frame set.
* Power of 2 Megapixels as in 1024 squared (1,048,576), not millions.

Thanks for providing that data. I'd been hunting all over the place to
find it. My statements are thus wrong but the basic idea of comparative
resolutions is somewhat correct. With Cinerama frames we have to recall
that not only are they a full six perfs high but they're also wider
because the full area between perfs is utilized. Overall, a Cinerama
frame is about 83% larger than a four perf Academy frame. That gives us
a scanned area that's 5.5 times larger than standard 35mm.

Marty