CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF

[three-eyed freak]

Watched Cat On A Hot Tin Roof last night on TCM. It was a good print
and was letterboxed. But I didn't see a widescreen process listed
during the opening or closing credits. The size of the letterbox
looked like VistaVision. Also no music (score) credit. Was MGM in
such bad financial shape in 1958 they couldn't afford to have the movie
scored? I was expecting to see Alex North's name as he seemed to score
all the Tennessee Williams adaptations.

[Martin Hart]

Post by three-eyed freak
Watched Cat On A Hot Tin Roof last night on TCM. It was a good print
and was letterboxed. But I didn't see a widescreen process listed
during the opening or closing credits. The size of the letterbox
looked like VistaVision. Also no music (score) credit. Was MGM in
such bad financial shape in 1958 they couldn't afford to have the movie
scored? I was expecting to see Alex North's name as he seemed to score
all the Tennessee Williams adaptations.

"Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" was shot in flat 1.85:1 35mm. No wide screen
process name is required since this format is the old Academy aperture
cropped down to yield a "wide screen".

As for the score, I don't recall the music at all but MGM's financial
situation had nothing to do with what wound up on the screen. The film
was a huge money maker and MGM spared little in its production.
Doubtless the decision for musical content rested with Richard Brooks.

Marty

[three-eyed freak]

Thanks, Mr Hart. I forget there are those flat 1.85:1 movies out there
and that TCM is so good at giving us the whole picture when available.
This explains why I have never seen a widescreen process credit for
Rear Window either. Please forgive a 58 year old novice who jumps to
the conclusion that if I see black bars at the top and bottom of the TV
screen, it must be widescreen!
As far as the music goes, there wasn't much. Several "source music"
cues of some tacky 50's jazzy piano. Maybe the director decided that
Alex North had scored too many southern gothic movies.

[Mark Dunn]

It IS widescreen. It's just not 'Scope.

Post by three-eyed freak
Thanks, Mr Hart. I forget there are those flat 1.85:1 movies out there
and that TCM is so good at giving us the whole picture when available.
This explains why I have never seen a widescreen process credit for
Rear Window either. Please forgive a 58 year old novice who jumps to
the conclusion that if I see black bars at the top and bottom of the TV
screen, it must be widescreen!
As far as the music goes, there wasn't much. Several "source music"
cues of some tacky 50's jazzy piano. Maybe the director decided that
Alex North had scored too many southern gothic movies.

[John Skoda]

Post by Martin Hart
As for the score, I don't recall the music at all but MGM's financial
situation had nothing to do with what wound up on the screen. The film
was a huge money maker and MGM spared little in its production.
Doubtless the decision for musical content rested with Richard Brooks.

Just a guess, but the lack of music/music credit may have had to do with
a musicians strike going on in Hollywood around that time. This is the
same reason that Herrmann's VERTIGO score was recorded in Europe.

John Skoda
jskoda at toast dot net

[m***@rogers.com]

www.IMDb.com indicates uncredited original music by Charles Wolcott.

Offhand I can't recall Alex North scoring any TW movies other than
"Streetcar".






CPJ

[m***@rogers.com]

Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".

By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".







CPJ

[Captain Jinks]

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds pretty
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While North
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out noise, and
yet producers still hired him.

Marty

[Mark Dunn]

And the unused score for "2001".

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds pretty
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While North
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out noise, and
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[three-eyed freak]

Glad to see other people are unafraid to opine that Dimitri Tiomkin
composed some really boring scores late in his career, especially the
Westerns with songs (lyrics by Paul Francis Webster). Watching the
credits to a movie like High Noon and hearing second-rate vocals of
third-rate words always put me off. I do like some of the music he
wrote for The Fall of the Roman Empire, though. But can you imagine
if Tiomkin had written the score for How The West Was Won, instead of
Alfred Newman? HTWWW was the first soundtrack album I bought, which
started a long and ongoing love affair with film scores (which also led
into a passion for 20th Century classical music).

I also have always enjoyed Alex North's scores, which were unusual in
his use of percussion and discordant brass. But then he could throw in
a rhapsodic love theme as in Spartacus.

[Martin Hart]

Post by three-eyed freak
Glad to see other people are unafraid to opine that Dimitri Tiomkin
composed some really boring scores late in his career, especially the
Westerns with songs (lyrics by Paul Francis Webster). Watching the
credits to a movie like High Noon and hearing second-rate vocals of
third-rate words always put me off. I do like some of the music he
wrote for The Fall of the Roman Empire, though. But can you imagine
if Tiomkin had written the score for How The West Was Won, instead of
Alfred Newman? HTWWW was the first soundtrack album I bought, which
started a long and ongoing love affair with film scores (which also led
into a passion for 20th Century classical music).
I also have always enjoyed Alex North's scores, which were unusual in
his use of percussion and discordant brass. But then he could throw in
a rhapsodic love theme as in Spartacus.

You got it backwards. Tiomkin's "High Noon" is a great score and his
"Fall of the Roman Empire" sucks big time. My opinions are always right.

Marty

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by three-eyed freak
Glad to see other people are unafraid to opine that Dimitri Tiomkin
composed some really boring scores late in his career, especially the
Westerns with songs (lyrics by Paul Francis Webster). Watching the
credits to a movie like High Noon and hearing second-rate vocals of
third-rate words always put me off. I do like some of the music he
wrote for The Fall of the Roman Empire, though. But can you imagine
if Tiomkin had written the score for How The West Was Won, instead of
Alfred Newman? HTWWW was the first soundtrack album I bought, which
started a long and ongoing love affair with film scores (which also led
into a passion for 20th Century classical music).

Huh? It's main theme is Greensleeves with new lyrics.

Lincoln

[three-eyed freak]

That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by three-eyed freak
That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

Well, it's the only music from that movie I ever remembered. And it's a very
blatant steal.

Lincoln

[John Skoda]

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by three-eyed freak
That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

Well, it's the only music from that movie I ever remembered. And it's a very
blatant steal.

It was an acknowledged steal--it's credited right on the album ("music
is adapted from 'Greensleeves' by Robert Emmett Dolan". I think the
idea being that the characters' British roots weren't so far behind.

John Skoda
jskoda at toast dot net

[Martin Hart]

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by three-eyed freak
That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

Well, it's the only music from that movie I ever remembered. And it's a very
blatant steal.
Lincoln

At the time "How The West Was Won" was released there was a lot of
publicity about how Newman and Darby had incorporated many folk melodies
into the score. The overture, entr'acte and exit music were almost
completely from folk melodies. Additionally, Newman used quite a few of
his own earlier film compositions in the score. Using the word "steal"
in relation to this particular score is inaccurate.

Marty

[unknown]

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by three-eyed freak
That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

Well, it's the only music from that movie I ever remembered. And it's a very
blatant steal.
Lincoln

At the time "How The West Was Won" was released there was a lot of
publicity about how Newman and Darby had incorporated many folk melodies
into the score. The overture, entr'acte and exit music were almost
completely from folk melodies. Additionally, Newman used quite a few of
his own earlier film compositions in the score. Using the word "steal"
in relation to this particular score is inaccurate.
Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
www.widescreenmuseum.com

And it was at the hight of the Folk Music Era with groups like The Kingston
Trio, New Christy Minstrals, etc. being very popular with young and old
alike. Rock had not supplanted folk at that point, but it was coming up
fast from behind. I like to think of HTWWW as the last hurrah for Cinerama,
Folk Music and Innocense of the American Spirit. Everything was going to
change in 1963 in those 3 areas. Movies and politics got cynical, rock came
in strong and we were getting stuck in Viet Nam and Civil Rights issues.and
Cinerama went to a single negative/positive system.

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by unknown
And it was at the hight of the Folk Music Era with groups like The
Kingston Trio, New Christy Minstrals, etc. being very popular with young
and old alike. Rock had not supplanted folk at that point, but it was
coming up fast from behind. I like to think of HTWWW as the last hurrah
for Cinerama, Folk Music and Innocense of the American Spirit. Everything
was going to change in 1963 in those 3 areas. Movies and politics got
cynical, rock came in strong and we were getting stuck in Viet Nam and
Civil Rights issues.and Cinerama went to a single negative/positive
system.

I don't believe there ever was an "Innocence of the American Spirit." In
1962, film noir had been around for 15 years, and many contemporary westerns
were quite dark. That was the year, after all, where John Ford told us that
the myth of the Western was a lie (The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance), and
the best picture Oscar went to a war movie with a troubled, homosexual
protagonist.

I also find it hard to associate the resolutely apolitical HTWWW with the
folk music scene dominated by Peter, Paul, and Mary, Joan Baez, and a very
young Bob Dylan.

But I agree that 1962 was the peek of Hollywood's Big Negative Roadshow era.
After that, it was all downhill.

Lincoln

[unknown]

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by unknown
And it was at the hight of the Folk Music Era with groups like The
Kingston Trio, New Christy Minstrals, etc. being very popular with young
and old alike. Rock had not supplanted folk at that point, but it was
coming up fast from behind. I like to think of HTWWW as the last hurrah
for Cinerama, Folk Music and Innocense of the American Spirit.
Everything was going to change in 1963 in those 3 areas. Movies and
politics got cynical, rock came in strong and we were getting stuck in
Viet Nam and Civil Rights issues.and Cinerama went to a single
negative/positive system.

I don't believe there ever was an "Innocence of the American Spirit." In
1962, film noir had been around for 15 years, and many contemporary
westerns were quite dark. That was the year, after all, where John Ford
told us that the myth of the Western was a lie (The Man Who Shot Liberty
Valance), and the best picture Oscar went to a war movie with a troubled,
homosexual protagonist.
I also find it hard to associate the resolutely apolitical HTWWW with the
folk music scene dominated by Peter, Paul, and Mary, Joan Baez, and a very
young Bob Dylan.
But I agree that 1962 was the peek of Hollywood's Big Negative Roadshow
era. After that, it was all downhill.
Lincoln

The "Innocence of the American Spirit" is a myth, which I failed to clarify
above. I was using the term in relationship to how that myth was coming to
end in Hollywood. Westerns were beginning to get dark and show the not so
pretty side of Manifest Destiny. We had prior to HTWWW, THE SEARCHERS and
as you mentioned LIBERTY VALENCE was around the corner. In a few years we
would be seeing Peckinpaw's output coupled with THE MAN A CALLED HORSE,
LITTLE BIG MAN, SOLDIER BLUE, etc. Peter, Paul and Mary and Joan Baez kind
of faded though by 1969 and only seem to show up on pledge week on PBS. Bob
Dylan, however, remains immortal, largely because he evolved (there's folk
Bob, Nashville Bob, Born Again Christian Bob, We Are The World Bob, Electric
Bob, Bob the collaborator). Enter the age of the anti hero in film, music
and society at large.

And, yes, my analysis oversimplifies what were complex issues that had other
factors influencing filmmaking and the audience's taste. HTWWW says
probably more about me that it does America, in that it's what the kid in me
at the time (I was 8) felt and believed, but in a few years I'd much more
interested in politics of CHEYANNE AUTUMN as boring as it was, than the
siiliness of THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL. Such were the times.

Morgan

[Lincoln Spector]

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by three-eyed freak
That wasn't the Main Title Theme. You're thinking of "Home In The
Meadow."

Well, it's the only music from that movie I ever remembered. And it's a very
blatant steal.
Lincoln

At the time "How The West Was Won" was released there was a lot of
publicity about how Newman and Darby had incorporated many folk melodies
into the score. The overture, entr'acte and exit music were almost
completely from folk melodies. Additionally, Newman used quite a few of
his own earlier film compositions in the score. Using the word "steal"
in relation to this particular score is inaccurate.

I didn't realize it was openly acknowledged.

About other songs used in the score, it also used "When Johnnie Comes
Marching Home," usually associated with WWI, which felt anachronistic to me.

Lincoln

[Martin Hart]

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by Martin Hart
At the time "How The West Was Won" was released there was a lot of
publicity about how Newman and Darby had incorporated many folk melodies
into the score. The overture, entr'acte and exit music were almost
completely from folk melodies. Additionally, Newman used quite a few of
his own earlier film compositions in the score. Using the word "steal"
in relation to this particular score is inaccurate.

I didn't realize it was openly acknowledged.
About other songs used in the score, it also used "When Johnnie Comes
Marching Home," usually associated with WWI, which felt anachronistic to me.
Lincoln

"When Johnnie Comes Marching Home" is definitely from the Civil War but
it got reborn in both WWI and WWII because of the sentiments it
expressed. There was a post WWII film about a G.I. who got amnesia and
for lack of a better name, the doctors called him Johnny March.

During the overture in "How The West Was Won" you will hear Dave Guard
and the Whiskey Hill Singers, a folk music group. Guard had been a third
of the Kingston Trio. Throughout the film there are probably over a
dozen folk melodies woven into the orchestral score. Most of those tunes
were very unfamiliar to the average person back then and certainly less
so now. "Greensleeves" is of English origin but has had American lyrics
added to it a number of times since the landing on Plymouth Rock. It
makes a nice theme in HTWWW except when Debbie did the singing. Ole Deb
never had a particularly good voice.

All in all, in my opinion, HTWWW is the best work that Newman and Darby
did. There are lots of Newman scores that I just detest and a number
that I like. HTWWW is a favorite of mine.

And Alex North's music for "Cheyenne Autumn" DOES sound like it was
lifted from "Cleopatra" and "Spartacus". So there!!!

Marty

[Joseph Caporiccio]

how the How the west was won uses, the greensleeves theme for debbie
Reynolds, now called Home in the Meadow. It is certainly NOT the main theme
of the film.

Post by Lincoln Spector

Post by three-eyed freak
Glad to see other people are unafraid to opine that Dimitri Tiomkin
composed some really boring scores late in his career, especially the
Westerns with songs (lyrics by Paul Francis Webster). Watching the
credits to a movie like High Noon and hearing second-rate vocals of
third-rate words always put me off. I do like some of the music he
wrote for The Fall of the Roman Empire, though. But can you imagine
if Tiomkin had written the score for How The West Was Won, instead of
Alfred Newman? HTWWW was the first soundtrack album I bought, which
started a long and ongoing love affair with film scores (which also led
into a passion for 20th Century classical music).

Huh? It's main theme is Greensleeves with new lyrics.
Lincoln

[Martin Hart]

Post by Mark Dunn
And the unused score for "2001".

Never in my life have I heard film music worse than North's score for
"2001". I'll step up first and say that I consider Kubrick to be a total
fruitcake but his rejection of North's music was an incredibly wise
decision.

Marty

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds

pretty

Post by Captain Jinks
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While North
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out noise,

and

Post by Captain Jinks
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[Mark Dunn]

I've never heard it. Obviously a lucky escape.

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
And the unused score for "2001".

Never in my life have I heard film music worse than North's score for
"2001". I'll step up first and say that I consider Kubrick to be a total
fruitcake but his rejection of North's music was an incredibly wise
decision.
Marty

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds

pretty

Post by Captain Jinks
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While North
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out noise,

and

Post by Captain Jinks
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[Mark Dunn]

Correct that. I've just found the clips. It sounds like North listened to
the guide tracks and then paraphrased. Sounds quite a bit like 'Spartacus'.
It's just incidental music, not a score. I knew what to expect because
Marty's judgment is pretty reliable, but... oh dear. And they went to all
that trouble recording it. What a waste of electrons. My ears are bleeding.
Still, for completeness....

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
And the unused score for "2001".

Never in my life have I heard film music worse than North's score for
"2001". I'll step up first and say that I consider Kubrick to be a total
fruitcake but his rejection of North's music was an incredibly wise
decision.
Marty

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood movies,
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus", "Cleopatra",
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds

pretty

Post by Captain Jinks
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While North
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out noise,

and

Post by Captain Jinks
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[Joseph Caporiccio]

Being a hard core film score collector for years, it pains me at some of the
opinions thrown aroudn onthis group. EVERY TIME a North score is brought up, it
either sounds like Cleopatra or Spartacus, whether it does or not.

Post by Mark Dunn
Correct that. I've just found the clips. It sounds like North listened to
the guide tracks and then paraphrased. Sounds quite a bit like 'Spartacus'.
It's just incidental music, not a score. I knew what to expect because
Marty's judgment is pretty reliable, but... oh dear. And they went to all
that trouble recording it. What a waste of electrons. My ears are bleeding.
Still, for completeness....

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
And the unused score for "2001".

Never in my life have I heard film music worse than North's score for
"2001". I'll step up first and say that I consider Kubrick to be a total
fruitcake but his rejection of North's music was an incredibly wise
decision.
Marty

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood

movies,

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus",

"Cleopatra",

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds

pretty

Post by Captain Jinks
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc. While

North

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out

noise,

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
and

Post by Captain Jinks
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[Mark Dunn]

Nothing personal. Just what it reminded me of.

Post by Joseph Caporiccio
Being a hard core film score collector for years, it pains me at some of the
opinions thrown aroudn onthis group. EVERY TIME a North score is brought up, it
either sounds like Cleopatra or Spartacus, whether it does or not.

Post by Mark Dunn
Correct that. I've just found the clips. It sounds like North listened to
the guide tracks and then paraphrased. Sounds quite a bit like 'Spartacus'.
It's just incidental music, not a score. I knew what to expect because
Marty's judgment is pretty reliable, but... oh dear. And they went to all
that trouble recording it. What a waste of electrons. My ears are bleeding.
Still, for completeness....

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
And the unused score for "2001".

Never in my life have I heard film music worse than North's score for
"2001". I'll step up first and say that I consider Kubrick to be a total
fruitcake but his rejection of North's music was an incredibly wise
decision.
Marty

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
Mr. North also scored "The Rose Tatoo".
By the 1960s he was mainly occupied with big-budget Hollywood

movies,

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
including several 70mm roadshow releases like "Spartacus",

"Cleopatra",

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks

Post by m***@rogers.com
"The Agony And The Ecstacy" and "The Shoes Of The Fisherman".
CPJ

Don't forget "Cheyenne Autumn" with it's excellent score that sounds

pretty

Post by Captain Jinks
much like his excellent score for "Cleopatra", etc. etc. etc.

While

Post by Joseph Caporiccio

Post by Mark Dunn
North

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn

Post by Captain Jinks
lacked range in his later life, at least he was pretty much still
listenable, unlike Dimitri Tiomkin who just started churning out

noise,

Post by Martin Hart

Post by Mark Dunn
and

Post by Captain Jinks
yet producers still hired him.
Marty

[Bill Vermillion]

Post by Joseph Caporiccio
Being a hard core film score collector for years, it pains me
at some of the opinions thrown aroudn onthis group. EVERY TIME
a North score is brought up, it either sounds like Cleopatra or
Spartacus, whether it does or not.

People are confusing style [best word I can think of] with the
melody. It's similar to the classical composers so when you get to
know their style you know they wrote a piece the first time you
hear it.

I remember the first time I saw Days Of Heaven - a chord
progression reminded me of a theme in Once Upon A Time In The West
- and I checked and sure enough it was by Ennio Morricone.
I don't know how many films I've heard that he has done but he's as
identifiable to me as serious composers are. [I like the
modernists].

He was quite prolific as IMDB lists 554 films as the composer
while someone like Henry Mancini only had 472.

As an ex-recording engineer I've noticed that many people hear but
they don't listen.

Composers have their musical signatures so maybe that's why someone
ways "It sounds like XXXXX".

Bill

[Joseph Caporiccio]

Alex North also scored Williams The Rose Tattoo.

Post by m***@rogers.com
www.IMDb.com indicates uncredited original music by Charles Wolcott.
Offhand I can't recall Alex North scoring any TW movies other than
"Streetcar".
CPJ

[Bill Vermillion]

Post by Joseph Caporiccio
Alex North also scored Williams The Rose Tattoo.

Post by m***@rogers.com
www.IMDb.com indicates uncredited original music by Charles Wolcott.
Offhand I can't recall Alex North scoring any TW movies other than
"Streetcar".

IMDB has 86 films listing Alex North as composer.

[r***@comcast.net]

According to IMDB, the music was by Charles Wolcott (uncredited).

RPM

[three-eyed freak]

Tiomkin should have retired after he scored "I Confess". His scores
for "55 Days At Peking" and "The Alamo" are total garbage.

I agree that Kubrick made a wise decision in canning North's score for
2001, but he could have been a man and told North his score was not
used. Per album notes, North went to the London premiere of 2001 and
was startled to hear Richard Strauss instead of Alex North.

[EricV]

According to the book Hollywood Song by Ken Bloom (which he researched
from the original MGM studio music files) Andre Previn is listed for
what score there is. Earlier post mentioned "tacky 50's jazz piano"
and that could well be Previn. A song called "Lost in a Summer Night"
(music by Previn, lyrics by Milton Raskin) was written for Cat but only
used instrumentally. That song is not to be confused with one called
"Hot Summer Night" by Previn with lyrics by Bob Russell from the MGM
movie of the same name-1957.

[m***@yahoo.com]

Post by three-eyed freak
Tiomkin should have retired after he scored "I Confess". His scores
for "55 Days At Peking" and "The Alamo" are total garbage.

==============================================================
I have to disagree about "The Alamo" I think it's one of his better
scores. The very next year, he composed the score for "The Guns of
Navarone" which is one of my favorite scores. BTW, John Williams worked
for Tiomkin around that time and may have worked on this score.

[Martin Hart]

Post by m***@yahoo.com

Post by three-eyed freak
Tiomkin should have retired after he scored "I Confess". His scores
for "55 Days At Peking" and "The Alamo" are total garbage.

==============================================================
I have to disagree about "The Alamo" I think it's one of his better
scores. The very next year, he composed the score for "The Guns of
Navarone" which is one of my favorite scores. BTW, John Williams worked
for Tiomkin around that time and may have worked on this score.

We are free to disagree. Tiomkin was usually good for a couple of themes
and the rest of his scores were some sort of orchestral noise that he
applied to any film in any time period. You can interchange this noise
between The Guns of Navarone, Fall of the Roman Empire, Circus World, or
The Alamo. It's all pretty dreadful except for those themes. I defy
anyone to try to whistle or hum anything other than the one or two
themes that writes for any film. High Noon is one of my favorite scores
and it uses one theme throughout, so very little of the Tiomkin noise
appears.

I'm not a John Williams fan to any great extent but I'll say that he
writes music rather than noise. Lastly, I am totally untrained in music
so I'm speaking only of what I think on the subject.

Marty

[three-eyed freak]

Thanks for the response. Of course, we ARE free to disagree. I guess
Tiomkin's music never grabbed my attention like other film composers'
scores did -- from Max Steiner's "King Kong" to Basil Polidouris'
"Conan The Barbarian". Tiomkin's main title themes were catchy and a
lot of the rest of his scores did seem like just background noise --
sometimes sounding like he was writing either against the film, or with
no idea what scenes he was scoring.

I never really cared for John Williams, probably more due to the movies
he scored than the music itself. Bernard Herrman would probably get my
vote as best overall film composer with Miklos Rozsa running neck 'n
neck. "Ben-Hur" has always been my favorite epic score.

[Joseph Caporiccio]

My number one composer is Alfred Newman - followed by Rozsa and waxman.
Tiomkin seems almost incapable of underscoring dialog. he does big
fine, but everything else is no good.

Post by three-eyed freak
Thanks for the response. Of course, we ARE free to disagree. I guess
Tiomkin's music never grabbed my attention like other film composers'
scores did -- from Max Steiner's "King Kong" to Basil Polidouris'
"Conan The Barbarian". Tiomkin's main title themes were catchy and a
lot of the rest of his scores did seem like just background noise --
sometimes sounding like he was writing either against the film, or with
no idea what scenes he was scoring.
I never really cared for John Williams, probably more due to the movies
he scored than the music itself. Bernard Herrman would probably get my
vote as best overall film composer with Miklos Rozsa running neck 'n
neck. "Ben-Hur" has always been my favorite epic score.

[Martin Hart]

Post by three-eyed freak
Thanks for the response. Of course, we ARE free to disagree. I guess
Tiomkin's music never grabbed my attention like other film composers'
scores did -- from Max Steiner's "King Kong" to Basil Polidouris'
"Conan The Barbarian". Tiomkin's main title themes were catchy and a
lot of the rest of his scores did seem like just background noise --
sometimes sounding like he was writing either against the film, or with
no idea what scenes he was scoring.
I never really cared for John Williams, probably more due to the movies
he scored than the music itself. Bernard Herrman would probably get my
vote as best overall film composer with Miklos Rozsa running neck 'n
neck. "Ben-Hur" has always been my favorite epic score.

Miklos Rozsa was the guy that made me take a hard right turn in my
musical appreciation and he remains my favorite. "Ben-Hur" is a
remarkable score and probably my favorite, I've certainly listened to it
more than any other score. But I also really like "Quo Vadis" which is
similar but seems more melodic, and all the scores he did for Alexander
Korda are great. "The Jungle Book", which I just happened to be
listening to at this time, is a great favorite for soaring melodies, as
is "The Thief of Bagdad". Since Rozsa was one of the few composers that
Bernard Herrmann appreciated, I feel justified in my respect.

Herrmann is always great and he literally makes Hitchcock's 1950s films
come to life, and his 20th Century-Fox product was superb. Tiomkin did
okay for Hitchcock as well but by the time you get to something like
"Fall of the Roman Empire" it seems as though old Dimi lost his baton.
Total unlistenable shit. Few composers did their best work in the later
years of their lives but Tiomkin went downhill about halfway through
his.

And I don't know shit about music, just what I like to listen to. So my
opinions are of no value unless you happen to be in my presence.

Marty

[d***@yahoo.com]

Here's an interesting site listing the Oscar nominees and winners for
best scores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Original_Music_Score#1960s

"Ben-Hur" is also one of my favorite film scores and I consider it to
be a great, classic score. Same with Max Steiner's "King Kong".

[Joseph Caporiccio]

I think Wolcott was just themusic supervisor. this was made during the
beginning of the musicians strike and I was told that mgm just pulled
tracks of jazz cuts from mgm records.

Post by r***@comcast.net
According to IMDB, the music was by Charles Wolcott (uncredited).
RPM

[l***@yahoo.com]

Post by three-eyed freak
Watched Cat On A Hot Tin Roof last night on TCM. It was a good print
and was letterboxed. But I didn't see a widescreen process listed
during the opening or closing credits. The size of the letterbox
looked like VistaVision. Also no music (score) credit. Was MGM in
such bad financial shape in 1958 they couldn't afford to have the movie
scored? I was expecting to see Alex North's name as he seemed to score
all the Tennessee Williams adaptations.

They took Alex North's name off from the credits. I remember seeing this film in the early sixties when his name was on the credits. There was a lawsuit filed regarding who really did the music to this film. I have always thought the music was very subtle and outstanding, mostly a simple piano with that lovely theme...............