Discussion:
ANOTHER RARE 65MM FILM MAKES IT TO DVD FOR THE FIRST TIME
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g***@hotmail.com
2012-06-08 04:05:55 UTC
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Warner's will be releasing BILLY THE KID (1930) on dvd in the near future. The film has been around for years on dvd from various scources. Does anyone know if the last surviving 70mm print of the film is still playable? It hasn't been screened publicly for 20-30 years.
Dan Sherlock
2012-06-09 19:28:06 UTC
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The short answer is that there are no known copies in existence of the
widescreen version (Realife) of BILLY THE KID. The longer answer is a
bit more interesting:

BILLY THE KID was photographed in Realife which used the same 70mm
Mitchell FC cameras used for Grandeur. This means that even if there
were a 70mm print available, it would not be possible to show it since
it would require a custom projector - the 70mm film used in the camera
had a longer pitch for the sprocket holes than conventional 70mm film
(0.234 inches rather than 0.1866 inches; the projector dimensions are
approximately the same). This doesn't even account for the fun it
would take to play back the optical track, or to provide fire traps
for the nitrate film. There were no standard (Todd-AO style) 70mm
prints ever made; in fact, THE BIG TRAIL was only "restored" as a
'scope 35mm master, so there are no available 70mm prints of that
title either.

My apologies to those that know this stuff for rehashing old info.
Now for the lesser-known stuff:

There were NEVER any 70mm prints made of BILLY THE KID. The rumor of
a 70mm print seems to have come from an infamous red book that showed
a frame. However, that was a frame from the NEGATIVE that was
contrast reversed to look like a positive - this is indicated from the
fact that the black surrounding the image is black all the way past
the perfs to the edge of the film; a 70mm release print would be clear
between the perfs and the edge of the film. The Realife version of
BILLY THE KID was a 70mm negative optically reduced to a full-frame
(perf-to-perf) 35mm print that was CROPPED to a 1.75:1 aspect ratio by
removing the sides of the negative image during the optical printing
process. This did give a sharper image than the version shot with
35mm cameras due to a reduction in the size of the negative grain, and
it gained a bit more light by using the area normally taken up by the
optical track (Realife used sound-on-disk) and using a taller image
than what would have been the case with a reduction with a 2:1 aspect
ratio. Unfortunately this didn't give enough light for very large
screens, and MGM filed for and was granted a patent for making an
anamorphic 35mm reduction to use more area on the release print.
However, it appears that the Realife format was abandoned before this
could be put into practice.

-Dan Sherlock
Warner's will be releasing BILLY THE KID (1930) on dvd in the near future. The film has been around  for years on dvd from various scources. Does anyone know  if the last surviving 70mm print of the film is still playable? It hasn't been screened publicly  for  20-30 years.
g***@hotmail.com
2012-06-10 03:48:08 UTC
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Thanks for the very interesting details. BILLY THE KID was advertised in NYC as being "on the giant Realife screen.You won't believe your eyes-there has been anything like it ever before-the biggest thing since the talkies" .That's what the adverts said.They also said that the critics and public were raving after the Premiere of the new process. There was a rumour (just that-a rumour) that a 70mm print existed in good condition ,possibly in Europe, in the eighties. I also understand that there is a 70mm print of BIG TRAIL in the archives somewhere but it is not available for being screened publicly.

A little known fact also is that Betty Grable appeared in the chorus of the film 'SONG O' MY HEART -another wide screen film that was only released in standard 35mm after the 65mm negative was destroyed in a fire.
Dan Sherlock
2012-06-10 07:58:17 UTC
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BILLY THE KID was shown in Realife at the Capital Theatre in New York
City in 1930 using the reduced 35mm print:

From Variety, October 22, 1930:

Metro's Realife process, showing at the Capital this week with "Billy
the Kid" (M0G) as the first subject, is actually a reduced Fox
Grandeur print. The Realife scheme is to shoot on 70mm stock, reduce
the photographic result to 35mm. (standard) and release to the theatre
with only special projection lenses necessary in the booth plus,
perhaps, more amperage in the lamp house to light the wide screen
adequately.

=====
From the January 1931 issue of the Journal of the SMPE:

MR. STERN: I should like to know if Billy the Kid was produced
by making a 35 mm. print from the 70 mm., or was it an optical print
from a 70 mm. negative?

MR. FEAR: It was produced by original reduction of the negative
to the positive...

MR. Ross: I wish to call attention to the fact that the frames in
Billy the Kid are about one-third smaller in height than in standard
35 mm.

=====
From a memo by H. KEITH WEEKS reporting on widescreen developments
dated July 18, 1930:

Metro Goldwyn Mayer are at present, by means of the above mentioned
process, not only reducing 70 mm. negative and printing it on 35 mm.
positive stock but they are also changing the proportions of the
picture from an approximate ratio of 2 1 (Grandeur size) to an
approximate ratio of 7 x 4.

=====
Finally, the August 1930 issue of Motion Picture Projectionist shows
35mm frames of the reduced / cropped Realife footage. Other articles
around that time indicate that the other Realife screenings in other
cities also used the 35mm reduction prints.

And as I mentioned, the older 70mm format as used for Grandeur and
Realfe photography was a special 70mm film with large perfs and and a
larger 0.234 inch pitch - a 70mm contact print from such a negative
could not be shown in a modern 70mm projector without substantial
modifications to the projector. The "restoration" by Karl Malkames in
the 1980's of THE BIG TRAIL was to 'scope 35mm and not to a 65mm or
70mm element; frames of the 'scope preservation elements of THE BIG
TRAIL and of FOX GRANDEUR NEWS appeared in an article in the April
1985 issue of the Journal of the BKSTS. The widescreen footage from
BILLY THE KID - both the 70mm negative as well as any 35mm reduction
elements - are considered lost. There are no Todd-AO style 70mm prints
of either BILLY THE KID or THE BIG TRAIL available, nor were any such
prints ever made, and rumors of their existence are not correct.

-Dan Sherlock
Thanks for the  very interesting details. BILLY THE KID was advertised  in NYC as being "on the giant Realife screen.You won't believe your eyes-there has been anything like it ever before-the biggest thing since the talkies" .That's  what the  adverts said.They also said that the critics and public were raving  after the  Premiere of the new  process. There was a rumour (just that-a rumour) that a 70mm print existed in good  condition ,possibly in Europe, in the eighties. I also understand that there is a 70mm print of  BIG TRAIL  in the archives  somewhere but  it is not available for  being screened publicly.
A little known fact   also is that Betty Grable appeared in the chorus of the film 'SONG O' MY HEART -another wide screen film that was only released in standard 35mm after the  65mm negative was  destroyed in a fire.
Martin Hart
2012-06-11 00:20:10 UTC
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Post by g***@hotmail.com
Thanks for the very interesting details. BILLY THE KID was advertised in NYC as being "on the giant Realife screen.You won't believe your eyes-there has been anything like it ever before-the biggest thing since the talkies" .That's what the adverts said.They also said that the critics and public were raving after the Premiere of the new process. There was a rumour (just that-a rumour) that a 70mm print existed in good condition ,possibly in Europe, in the
eighties. I also understand that there is a 70mm print of BIG TRAIL in the archives somewhere but it is not available for being screened publicly.
Post by g***@hotmail.com
A little known fact also is that Betty Grable appeared in the chorus of the film 'SONG O' MY HEART -another wide screen film that was only released in standard 35mm after the 65mm negative was destroyed in a fire.
A few years ago I ran both the standard 35mm and the Grandeur versions
of "The Big Trail" side by side. I honestly couldn't figure out which
version was the more boring. Not exactly a fast paced horse opera.
John Wayne was really pretty back then. Couldn't act for shit, but a
good looking dude.

Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
www.widescreenmuseum.com
g***@hotmail.com
2012-06-11 06:25:27 UTC
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I agree with you Marty, BIG TRAIL was a tedious film.John Wayne was also a non event as far as his acting abilities went.Unforunately they never improved throughout his life.
Martin Hart
2012-06-15 03:32:57 UTC
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Post by g***@hotmail.com
I agree with you Marty, BIG TRAIL was a tedious film.John Wayne was also a non event as far as his acting abilities went.Unforunately they never improved throughout his life.
Despite being a bit box office draw, John Wayne was not a great actor.
There were some films that he was actually good in. I think his best was
"Angel and the Badman". But there aren't many examples of him actually
doing a good job. Unfortunately, John Ford didn't have the ability of
William Wyler to draw believable characters out of a typed script. Of
course Ford hand nothing to do with "The Big Trail" but he sure
dominated Wayne's career after that. Despite Wayne's shortcomings he
managed to be in some very entertaining films. "The Shootist" was an
ideal film to be his last. His acting was better than usual and the
subject matter was a little too realistic.

Marty
--
The American WideScreen Museum
www.widescreenmuseum.com
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