Look What They've Done to "Lawrence of Arabia" Now.

[c***@hotmail.com]

This is the name of an article in The New York Times of 2 May 1971
about the Truncated version of
Lawrence(cut by an additional 15 minutes) which opened at the Loew's
Beverley Theater in Los Angeles on 1 April 1971..
Stephen Farber reports that important scenes in the film, mainly in
the second half have been severely cut

Apparently the whole scene where Lawrence asks his Arab Friends to go
with him into Derra has been entirely eliminated in this version.
Also the scene where General Allenby persuades him to return to Arabia
is almost entirely gone and the Hospital scene towards the end of the
film is also cut.

Interestingly a Lawrence afficianado in Australia, Patrick Conlon
maintains that the 35mm prints of this version
have added The Fire side chat between Allenby and Brighton which I
only remember first seeing in the 1989 Restoration but Conlon
maintains it was added to the 35mm prints of the 1971 (187 mins)
release prints.
Does anybody have any info about this?

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Patty Winter]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Interestingly a Lawrence afficianado in Australia, Patrick Conlon
maintains that the 35mm prints of this version
have added The Fire side chat between Allenby and Brighton which I
only remember first seeing in the 1989 Restoration but Conlon
maintains it was added to the 35mm prints of the 1971 (187 mins)
release prints.
Does anybody have any info about this?

Peter, I was just looking up some info about the "Lawrence" versions
in Wikipedia and IMDb the other night when TCM (in the U.S.) was airing
the movie as part of their Peter O'Toole evening. I'm afraid I can't
answer your question about whether that scene was added to the 1971
prints, but I'm curious whether there are even longer versions than
the 216-minute 1989 version floating around.

TCM's "Lawrence" page gives a running time of 222 minutes--is that
data from the original release, or an indication of what they air?
Even more confusing, their store website says the DVD they sell is
227 minutes! They're running it again on the 29th, so if I think
of it, I'll check the start and end times that night. Maybe they're
counting the intermission (because it does last a few minutes while
the music is playing) but some people don't count that as part of
the actual running time??


Patty

[g***@hotmail.com]

Was the length of the prologue ever included in the film's original 70mm running time? Some of us still remember seeing it 50 years ago. Here's hoping it will be on the forthcoming bluray.It wasn't on any of the video / dvd releases.

Post by Patty Winter
the music is playing) but some people don't count that as part of
the actual running time??
Patty

[g***@hotmail.com]

Post by g***@hotmail.com
Was the length of the prologue ever included in the film's original 70mm running time? Some of us still remember seeing it 50 years ago. Here's hoping it will be on the forthcoming bluray.It wasn't on any of the video / dvd releases.

Post by Patty Winter
the music is playing) but some people don't count that as part of
the actual running time??
Patty

[c***@hotmail.com]

 Was the length of the  prologue  ever included in the film's  original 70mm running time? Some of us still remember seeing it 50 years ago. Here's hoping  it will be on the forthcoming bluray.It wasn't on any of the video / dvd releases.

The Prologue was shown during the Overture indeed it was on the 70mm
film that contained the Overture and was matted to about 1.66:1 and
was in Black and White.

My memory of what was written on the Prologue is different to what
current writer's state.

Winston Churchill said:

" I deem him one of the greatest beings alive in our time,
I fear whatever our need we shall not see his like again,
His name will live in English Leltters,
It will live in the Annals of War,
It will live in the Legends of Arabia"

These Days they say the third line is"His name will Live in History"
but that's not the way I remember it.

Regards,
Peter Mason

Post by Patty Winter
the music is playing) but some people don't count that as part of
the actual running time??
Patty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Patty Winter

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Interestingly a Lawrence afficianado in Australia, Patrick Conlon
maintains that the 35mm prints of this version
have added The Fire side chat between Allenby and Brighton which I
only remember first seeing in the 1989 Restoration but Conlon
maintains it was added to the 35mm prints of the 1971 (187 mins)
release prints.
Does anybody have any info about this?

Peter, I was just looking up some info about the "Lawrence" versions
in Wikipedia and IMDb the other night when TCM (in the U.S.) was airing
the movie as part of their Peter O'Toole evening. I'm afraid I can't
answer your question about whether that scene was added to the 1971
prints, but I'm curious whether there are even longer versions than
the 216-minute 1989 version floating around.
TCM's "Lawrence" page gives a running time of 222 minutes--is that
data from the original release, or an indication of what they air?
Even more confusing, their store website says the DVD they sell is
227 minutes! They're running it again on the 29th, so if I think
of it, I'll check the start and end times that night. Maybe they're
counting the intermission (because it does last a few minutes while
the music is playing) but some people don't count that as part of
the actual running time??
Patty

Patty,
The original release time when Lawrence premiered at The
Odeon Leicester Square in London on
10 December 1962 .was 222 minutes plus Overture, Entr'Acte Music and
Exit Music which were another
12 minutes approximately in total.

About 2 months after the premiere Sam Speigel and David Lean cut 20
minutes from the film when the film moved to the Metropole,
opposite Victoria Station in London on 7 February 1963. The film was
now 202 minutes plus Overture, Entr'Acte Music and Exit Music.

In 1970-1971 another 15 minutes were deleted from Lawrence and this
edition totally destroyed the film since many of the cut scenes were
essential
to the story line .

In 1986 Robert Harris approached Columbia about the possibility of
restoring the Film to its original length of 222 minutes and was
eventually given the
go-ahead by Dawn Steele and Robert Harris began the arduous task of
restoring the film and took more than two years.
Eventually David Lean got involved in the Restoration and he made
various cuts to the 222 mins version so the final restored version was
216 minutes
plus Overture etc.

The scene in the original cut where General Allenby persuades Lawrence
to return to Arabia had originally a few more minutes than even the
1989 restored
version. Check out Alternate Versions on us.imdb.com for a very
comprehensive information about these scenes.

A new 65mm Columbia Logo was commissioned for the film since there was
no 65mm version of the Logo Because of time restraints there was not
enogh
time to send this new Logo to the Lab Optical Make-up Department and
add the "Sparkles" which is shown on just about all Columbia Logoes.
David Lean did not like the new "non-Sparkling" logo and he ordered
that it be replaced with a standard Cinemascope (Blow-up) logo.
During January 1963
the original new 65MM Logo was replaced with the standard Logo.

As to the length of the restored version, the 227 and 228 mins version
refer to the 216 mins version with the Overture, Entr'acte Music and
Exit Music included.
Part of the original exi music is noe used on the Restoration Credits.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Patty Winter]

Hi, Peter.

Yes, that's the info I mentioned on Wikipedia and IMDb.

So it's your theory that the 222 minutes mentioned on the TCM
website is the original running time and not the actual time of
the version they air?

The 227 mins. mentioned for their DVD would make sense if, as
you say, it's the 216-minute version plus the additional musical
segments.


Patty

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Patty Winter
Hi, Peter.
Yes, that's the info I mentioned on Wikipedia and IMDb.
So it's your theory that the 222 minutes mentioned on the TCM
website is the original running time and not the actual time of
the version they air?

Patty,
It is not just my theory, it is a fact that the original
premieres of the film in London, New York,
Los Angeles (and possibly Canada and possibly Japan ) were 222 mins
plus Overture, Entr'Acte Music
and Exit Music which brought the Total length to 234 minutes
Inclusive.
In February 1963 all the 70mm prints were cut to 202 mins.plus
Overture etc.

The 1989 70mm Restoration prints were 216 mins plus Overture etc. and
David Lean made small cuts througout
the picture. Do you have the 202 minutes VHS version. In the scene
where Allenby tries to persuade Lawrence to go
back to Arabia and Allenby says : "You're the most extraordinary man
I've ever met" and eventually Lawrence replies:
"Alright I'm extraordinary. I'm extraodinary" In the restored version
the second "I'm extraodinary is cut out"

Also quite a bit of this sequence that was in the original 222 mins
version is not in the 1989 Restoration such as where Allenby says:
"I'm a gardening sort of General " and other dialogue where Allenby
compares himself to either Nelson or Wellington, i can't remember
which.

In the scene where Jackson Bentley is talking to Ali and Bentley then
gets up and walks over to Lawrence there is a shot in the 202 mins
version
of the young boy Farraj going to Lawrence and telling him that Bentley
is coming to see him. This shot has been deleted from the 216 mins
Restoration.

Does anybody have a copy of the 1970-1971 version of 187 mins.
Apparently it was released in 1983 on Capacitance Disc, if that means
anything to anybody.


Regards,
Peter mason

Post by Patty Winter
The 227 mins. mentioned for their DVD would make sense if, as
you say, it's the 216-minute version plus the additional musical
segments.
Patty

[Patty Winter]

Post by c***@hotmail.com

Post by Patty Winter
So it's your theory that the 222 minutes mentioned on the TCM
website is the original running time and not the actual time of
the version they air?

It is not just my theory, it is a fact that the original
premieres of the film in London, New York,
Los Angeles (and possibly Canada and possibly Japan ) were 222 mins

I know that! I was referring to why TCM would list it as 222 mins.
on their website! Normally one would expect a TV channel to list
the running time of the version they're airing, but because TCM
has an online film database, I was hypothesizing that the times
they show are the original screened times, not necessarily the times
of versions available for broadcast.

Anyway, never mind, it's not that big a deal...


Patty

[g***@hotmail.com]

Patty

Don't always believe everything you read on IMDB and especially Wikipedia which is famous for all the garbage that is listed by people who have no idea what they are talking about. There have been so many different versions of LAWRENCE. Few people can even recall seeing it with a prologue when first released in 70mm(I can). Let us just hope that the forthcoming bluray will be the original complete version as David Lean intended. It has been several years of waiting for the often delayed Bluray release but you can guarantee it will be worth the wait.The May release has been delayed yet again. It is the only Engish language film that appears in my list of the top ten films of all time and was the very best of all the 176 feature films that I saw in 70mm

[Patty Winter]

Post by g***@hotmail.com
Don't always believe everything you read on IMDB and especially
Wikipedia which is famous for all the garbage that is listed by
people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Well, the previous poster cited the same information on IMDb that
I did and he seems very knowledgeable about the different versions
of LoA. If the information is wrong on either IMDb or Wikipedia,
perhaps one of you could help by submitting corrections.

Anyway, I'm not personally trying to keep track of the different
versions; I was just curious why TCM had theirs listed as 222 mins.
We've wandered far afield from the original poster's question about
the logo, which has still not been answered.


Patty

[c***@hotmail.com]

Patty
Don't  always believe everything you read on IMDB and especially  Wikipedia  which is famous for  all the  garbage that is listed by people who have no idea what they are talking about. There have been so many different versions of LAWRENCE. Few people can even recall seeing it with a prologue  when first released in 70mm(I can). Let us just hope that the forthcoming bluray will be the  original complete version as David Lean intended. It has been several years of waiting for the  often delayed Bluray release but   you can  guarantee it will be worth the wait.The May release  has been delayed  yet again. It is the only Engish language film that  appears in my list of the top ten films of all time and  was the very best of all the 176 feature films that I saw in 70mm

The B/W prologue was only shown in a few countries such as Australia
and New Zealand. It definitely was not shown in the USA or the UK.
It would be great if a copy of this Prologue could be found.A 35mm
version was also shown
as a Teaser during the last weeks of BARABBAS which preceded Lawrence
at the Barclay Cinema.

Regards,
Peter mason

[m***@hotmail.com]

This is all very fun and entertaining stories and speculation, but here are the official facts about the 1988 restoration:

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2008/lawrence_credit/index.htm

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2008/lawrence/index.htm

Thomas
in70mm.com