Discussion:
The Sound of Music in Digital HD. 4K or 2K?
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cinemad
2012-07-31 07:48:57 UTC
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I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)

Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?

Regards,
Peter M
Steve Kraus
2012-08-08 12:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by cinemad
I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at
the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)
Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?
Googling around says it is a 4K DCP.
Joe
2012-08-09 01:57:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Kraus
Post by cinemad
I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at
the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)
Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?
Googling around says it is a 4K DCP.
The next obvious question would be, was the 4K DCP being projected via a
4K or 2K projector?

And if it's a 4K DCP on a 4K projector, is there a GDC (brand) 4K IMB
(image media block) involved (which internally converts the 4K to 2K and
then back to 4K)?

Sorry, theatres, but simply stating "digital projection" isn't providing
me with enough information!
Derek Gee
2012-08-10 02:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
Post by Steve Kraus
Post by cinemad
I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at
the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)
Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?
Googling around says it is a 4K DCP.
The next obvious question would be, was the 4K DCP being projected via a
4K or 2K projector?
And if it's a 4K DCP on a 4K projector, is there a GDC (brand) 4K IMB
(image media block) involved (which internally converts the 4K to 2K and
then back to 4K)?
Why would a 4K block convert a 4K DCP to 2K and then back to 4K?

Derek
Joe
2012-08-10 17:11:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Derek Gee
Post by Joe
Post by Steve Kraus
Post by cinemad
I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at
the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)
Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?
Googling around says it is a 4K DCP.
The next obvious question would be, was the 4K DCP being projected via a
4K or 2K projector?
And if it's a 4K DCP on a 4K projector, is there a GDC (brand) 4K IMB
(image media block) involved (which internally converts the 4K to 2K and
then back to 4K)?
Why would a 4K block convert a 4K DCP to 2K and then back to 4K?
Derek
My guess is to reduce the cost of the IMB and still be able to tout "4K"
in the sales literature. (Never mind that what comes out no longer
qualifies as 4K.)


- Joe
g***@hotmail.com
2012-08-10 06:34:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by cinemad
I went to a special screening of The Sound of Music in Digital HD at the Orpheum Theatre at Cremorne(a Northern Sydney suburb)
Doe anybody know it this would have been 4K or 2K?
Regards,
Peter
It was advertised as being screened in 4 K.I would have gone to see it if it was in 70mm as it was when I saw it originally. I would not even bother seeing anything digital that I originally saw in 70mm. The cinema already has 70mm projection (very smalll screen ) but never run 70mm anymore. Even the forthcoming LAWRENCE OF ARABIA will be 4k digital.
Richard
2012-08-10 18:00:15 UTC
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Post by g***@hotmail.com
It was advertised as being screened in 4 K.I would have gone to see it if
it was in 70mm as it was when I saw it originally. I would not even bother
seeing anything digital that I originally saw in 70mm. The cinema already
has 70mm projection (very smalll screen ) but never run 70mm anymore. Even
the forthcoming LAWRENCE OF ARABIA will be 4k digital.
I fail also to understand why they filmed "Samsara" in 70mm.
Does one know if this movie was shown anywhere in 70mm ?
g***@hotmail.com
2012-08-11 07:40:15 UTC
Permalink
I appears that they will only show it in digital.Tragic news .It will be released on bluray in USA on 4 December.No matter how good digital may be ,it will never match the wonders of seeing a film in 70mm.Luckily I saw 172 features and about 20 or more shorts in 70mm.
Neil Midkiff
2012-08-12 06:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
No matter how good digital may be ,it will never match the wonders of
seeing a film in 70mm.

It's probably more accurate to say that in the near future, we won't see
any economically viable digital cinema format that will match the beauty
of 70mm.

There's no inherent reason why a digital cinema system couldn't be made
that equals or surpasses 70mm photography, but at present it would be
far too costly to compete with what the current market calls "good
enough". And of course the present state of the industry cares little
about quality, as the subject line of the current thread indicates.

I saw The Sound of Music in a gloriously fresh-looking 70mm print a
couple of years ago at the California Theatre in San Jose, and I am not
one bit thrilled by the possibility of seeing it in 4K (or 2K) digital
now. But I can well believe that ten or twenty years from now the state
of the art might make it practical to reproduce the 70mm experience
digitally, if those of us who can tell the difference in projection
quality can convince the rest of the audience to demand better than what
we're being given in digital cinema now.

-Neil Midkiff
Scott Dorsey
2012-08-14 13:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Midkiff
There's no inherent reason why a digital cinema system couldn't be made
that equals or surpasses 70mm photography, but at present it would be
far too costly to compete with what the current market calls "good
enough". And of course the present state of the industry cares little
about quality, as the subject line of the current thread indicates.
The problem isn't digital, yes. The problem is that people don't care about
quality.
Post by Neil Midkiff
I saw The Sound of Music in a gloriously fresh-looking 70mm print a
couple of years ago at the California Theatre in San Jose, and I am not
one bit thrilled by the possibility of seeing it in 4K (or 2K) digital
now. But I can well believe that ten or twenty years from now the state
of the art might make it practical to reproduce the 70mm experience
digitally, if those of us who can tell the difference in projection
quality can convince the rest of the audience to demand better than what
we're being given in digital cinema now.
Right now we have the ability, with current 8k technology, to come pretty
close to the resolution of a typical 70mm print even if perhaps not the best
possible 70mm prints.

The first problem is that resolution isn't everything, and 2k resolution can
look pretty good on a big screen if the greyscale is good enough. The
greyscale on current systems is not good enough. However, this is an
engineering problem that can be solved.

The second problem is that the theatre owners don't care, the studios don't
care, and the audiences hardly care. This is a much harder problem to solve.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
m***@hotmail.com
2012-08-20 07:13:13 UTC
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I've had the pleasure to see both "Samsara" and "The Sound of Music" presented in 4K, and the quality was amazing. It would be arrogant to say they don't look good in digital. 35mm presented in 2K looks like 70mm, and 65mm presented in 4K is state of the art. It is a different experience - sure, but if Mike Todd or Fred Waller had this projection technique available in the 1950, surely they would have used it.
g***@hotmail.com
2012-08-21 04:44:44 UTC
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Post by m***@hotmail.com
I've had the pleasure to see both "Samsara" and "The Sound of Music" presented in 4K, and the quality was amazing. It would be arrogant to say they don't look good in digital. 35mm presented in 2K looks like 70mm, and 65mm presented in 4K is state of the art. It is a different experience - sure, but if Mike Todd or Fred Waller had this projection technique available in the 1950, surely they would have used it.
I have yet to see digital quality that is anywhere near that experienced by 65mm projection.Few people today are capable of noticing the difference.4K may be state of the art today but it is nowhere near the quaity of 65mm.Digital may look great, even amazing on a television screen but on a huge cinema screen it is another matter.If digital is really that great then why are 70mm film festivals so popular? True film enthusiasts (especially 70mm) abhor digital. I agree with others who say that digital is cheap and the studios and exhibitors are only interested in profits NOT QUALITY.One local Imax exhibitor still prefers to use film rather than digital due to he poor quality of digital. Also why are special effects often filmed in either VistaVision or 65mm rather than use digital? One local suburban cinema had BARAKa in 70mm running for several years. Can't see that happening with SAMSARA in digital, no matter how brilliant you claim that it looked.
cinemad
2012-08-21 09:09:09 UTC
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Post by m***@hotmail.com
I've had the pleasure to see both "Samsara" and "The Sound of Music" presented in 4K, and the quality was amazing. It would be arrogant to say they don't look good in digital. 35mm presented in 2K looks like 70mm, and 65mm presented in 4K is state of the art.
I 've viewed The Sound of Music in 70MM many, many times and 70MM still looks better than 4K digital. The 4k print of SOM I saw recently did look very good(apart from the aerial scenes at the beginning which looked like they were filmed through a dirty window) but still not the qualty of 70MM.

Do the math: a 65mm negative will hold over 25 million pixels, print this onto Kodak Print film You;ll end up with 18 million pixels as against 4K's 8 million pixels.

Regards,
Peter Mason



It is a different experience - sure, but if Mike Todd or Fred Waller had this projection technique available in the 1950, surely they would have used it.
g***@hotmail.com
2012-08-22 00:42:59 UTC
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I agree with you Peter as I am sure most people do also. I saw THE SOUND OF MUSIC over 100 times in 70mm as I worked in a cinema that screened it. I have no intention of ever seeing it in digital as that would ruin the cherished memory of seeing it in 70mm nearly 50 years ago. It was truly one of the best photographed films out of all the 174 70mm features that I saw.
m***@hotmail.com
2012-08-22 11:46:22 UTC
Permalink
"I have no intention of ever seeing it in digital"

Well, I think you are missing a lot, and will be positively surprised if you actually went to see "Samsara", or any of the old 65mm flicks presented in 4K for that matter.

A lot of things have changed in exhibition since you saw SOM so many times 45+ years ago (who sees SOM a 100 times anyway???). I am certain that both producers, film makers and exhibitors are interested in quality AND in making a profit. Why should they not? I think it is a mistake to think they don't care.

Anyway, be happy, keep on enjoying 70mm and the things of the past
nara
2012-08-22 14:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@hotmail.com
"I have no intention of ever seeing it in digital"
Well, I think you are missing a lot..
He is indeed.

I have seen very many 70mm presentations over the last 50 years, but the
image quality of the 4K digital showing of 'Samsara' at Bradford earlier
this year, was the best I have ever experienced.

"Stunning" doesn't do it justce.

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