Was STAR WARS(1977) filmed on the Original 5247 or the Modified 5247?

[c***@hotmail.com]

In 1974 KODAK introduced their new Eastman Color Negatve 11 Film 5247
which required the new ECN2 Process. Many DOPS didn't like the fact
this film couldn't be :"Force Processed" and also felt the colors were
too saturated. KODAK went back to the drawing board and in 1976
introduced their new "Modified" 5247.This film had lower color
contrast than its predecessor and it could be "force processed".
Although Kodak never mentioned this it was considerably grainier than
the original 5247 introduced in 1974 and therefore was only introduced
in 35mm and 65mm but not 16mm. The original 7247 continued to be used
in 16mm format until the film was replaced in 1983 by the improved
7291 color negative.

Does anybody know if STAR WARS was filmed on the original 5247
introduced in 1974 or the Modified Product iintroduced in 1976.
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

By the Way the original 5247(not the first Eastman Color negative
introduced in 1950,) but the 1974 version had an Edge number Prefix
Code of "H" and the Modified Film had a Edge Number Prefix Code of
"F".
In 1980 the fiilm was modified again(improved sharpness and
Persulphate Bleach Compatibility) and was given the new Edge number
Prefix of "B".

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Derek Gee]

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

Derek

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

5247 changed many, many times over the years. It wasn't just one abrupt
change, it was a lot of different changes. Now that Mr. Pytlak is gone,
I don't know who you'd ask about all of them.

But you have to realize that back then, 5247 was a state of the art
product and constant tweaking was going on from batch to batch.

I sure don't miss those days.
--scott

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

5247 changed many, many times over the years.  It wasn't just one abrupt
change, it was a lot of different changes.

Yes, just as its predecessor 5254 was a grainier emulsion when it was
released in 1968
than the 5254 emulsion of 1973..

Still there were, apart from the original Eastman Color 5247 which was
officially released back in 1950, three versions
of the latter 5247 emulsion, the original released in the USA about
May/June of 1974, the first modified product released about July/
August
of 1976 and the final official modification of 1980. This version of
the film,which had the Edge number code "B" was finally discontinued
in 1997.

Regards,
Peter mason


 Now that Mr. Pytlak is gone,

I don't know who you'd ask about all of them.
But you have to realize that back then, 5247 was a state of the art
product and constant tweaking was going on from batch to batch.
I sure don't miss those days.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[spacecadet]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Gee

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

5247 changed many, many times over the years. It wasn't just one abrupt
change, it was a lot of different changes. Now that Mr. Pytlak is gone,
I don't know who you'd ask about all of them.
But you have to realize that back then, 5247 was a state of the art
product and constant tweaking was going on from batch to batch.
I sure don't miss those days.
--scott

John Alcott said that '47 replaced '54 just after he finished shooting
Barry Lyndon. There's another story that '54 was due to be phased out
during the shooting but Kodak brought it back into production for him.
That chimes with Kodak's timeline here
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Chronology_Of_Film/1960-1979/index.htm
which has '54 in production until 1976. So you'd probably have to ask
Gilbert Taylor.

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by spacecadet

Post by Derek Gee

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

5247 changed many, many times over the years.  It wasn't just one abrupt
change, it was a lot of different changes.  Now that Mr. Pytlak is gone,
I don't know who you'd ask about all of them.
But you have to realize that back then, 5247 was a state of the art
product and constant tweaking was going on from batch to batch.
I sure don't miss those days.
--scott

John Alcott said that '47 replaced '54 just after he finished shooting
Barry Lyndon. There's another story that '54 was due to be phased out
during the shooting but Kodak brought it back into production for him.
That chimes with Kodak's timeline herehttp://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Chronology_Of_Film/1960-1979/...
which has '54 in production until 1976. So you'd probably have to ask
Gilbert Taylor.- Hide quoted text -

Just a story,but not based on fact. Here's the true story:
When KODAK introduced their new 5247 emulsion in 1974 many American
Cameramen did not like it for the following main reasons.

1. The new emulsion could not be satisfactorily "force-
processed"without the colors going way off.

2. Most American Directors of Photography felt the color saturation
was too high.(If this was a problem it was solved in the UK by
printing the new
emulsion on AGFA-Gevaert print film which was lower contrast)

3. The film had a "Flesh to Neutral" problem in that if you had a
caucasian istanding in front of a KODAK Gray Card and you graded the
negative to get a totally natural skin
tone the gray card would exhibit a cyan cast. On the other hand if you
graded the negative to obtain a totally neutral gray, skin tones would
be unnaturally red.
There is an article in the American Cinematographer Magazine from the
mid seventies about the production of "One Flew over the Cuckoos Nest"
and mention is made of this problem.
The problem is also referred to in the SMPTE Journal of 1983(I can't
remember the month but check the Index) in the article about the newly
introduced Eastman 7291 16mm color negative.
Apparently the problem was solved for the new 7291 negative.

Anyway for all these reasons US DOPS were not happy with the new
negative and after many complaints to Eastman Kodalk, KODAK decided to
bring the 5254 emulsion back into
production but still keep the original 5247 emulsion on the market as
well.
The new emulsion required a high temperature Process which was
referred to as ECN2.
Kodak went back to the drawing board and re-designed the emulsio and
lowered the color-contrast of the new emulsion and also made it "Force-
Processible"
Unfortunately they couldn't do this without increasing the grain so it
was decided not to make the new modified emulsion in 16mm, only 35mm
and 65mm.
In 1980 the 5247 was modified again and the sharpness was improved and
it was made "persulphate bleach" compatible.
In 1989 KODAK introduced its EXR range of Color Negative Motion
Picture Negative Films and a new 100 speed Tungsten balanced film
designated 5248 was introduced.
Ironically this film had greater color saturation and finer grain than
the 5247 film. Many cameramen loved the 5247 film and it co-existed
alongside 5248 until
it was finally taken off the market in 1997.
The 5254 emulsion was discontinued (for the second time) early in
1977.

Regards,
peter Mason

Post by spacecadet
- Show quoted text -

[c***@hotmail.com]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by c***@hotmail.com
Does anybody know when production commenced on STAR WARS?

According to Wikipedia, principal photography started on March 22, 1976.
When did Kodak introduce the modified 5247 in 1976?

About July'August of 1976. There is actually an announcement in the
September 1976 SMPTE Journal of its Introduction.
I think it was in the "What's New" section. The information in the
article was not 100% accurate eg the new modified emulsion was never
released in 16mm(because of the grain problem) although it may have
been the original intention to release the emulsion in the 16mm
gauge.

If STAR WARS started production in March 1976, it think it is safe to
say that the original 5247(introduced in 1974) was almost certainly
used.
By the way, in the UK it was common practice to print the original
5247 onto Agfa-Gevaert print stock which had lower contrast than the
Eastman Color print films.
The original Emulsion(not the first 5247 film which was introduced in
1950) has the edge code "H" before the edge number.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[Steve Kraus]

I wonder what could they possibly have been thinking when they reused the
old 1950's number. That was highly confusing when I was first learning
about this stuff and 5247 was both the original and (then) current
emulsion. Like they couldn't have selected another number.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Steve Kraus
I wonder what could they possibly have been thinking when they reused the
old 1950's number. That was highly confusing when I was first learning
about this stuff and 5247 was both the original and (then) current
emulsion. Like they couldn't have selected another number.

Steve, how many totally different emulsions can you think of which are
all called "Tri-X?"
--scott