About those water damaged negatives of WWOTBG

[Film buff Morgan]

I'd be curious to hear more about the damage to Grimm's negatives. What year did it happen and at what facility? What other famous titles were damage? Asset management has always been dicey with film titles (nitrate fires, nitrate decay, vinegar syndrome. etc).

Inquiring minds want to know.

[g***@hotmail.com]

Post by Film buff Morgan
I'd be curious to hear more about the damage to Grimm's negatives. What year did it happen and at what facility? What other famous titles were damage? Asset management has always been dicey with film titles (nitrate fires, nitrate decay, vinegar syndrome. etc).
Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't know about Bros Grimm but all the 3-strip cinerama negatives were damaged due to them not being stored correctly ( they were stored in a basement of a building that suffered water damage.Cinerama was virtually abandoned and mostly forgotten about until it was decided to open the Bradford Cinerama cinema in order for future generations to be able to see the wonder that Cinerama was and to relive that incredible experience.Most prints were dumped due to the huge cost of sending them back to America as they were no longer needed and the company was almost bankrupt. It is now impossible to ever be able to fully experience Cinerama as it was meant to be seen.The only exception is HTWWW.The documentaries are damaged and many elements missing, so a full restoration would be impossible.The Bradford print of This Is Cinerama was the best that could be done from the original negatives.For those of us that still remember the thrill of seeing Cinerama,it is sad that one of the most important era's of cinema history has virtually been lost forever ,especially as far as the documentaries go.

[h***@gmail.com]

I don't know about Bros Grimm but all the 3-strip cinerama negatives were damaged due to them not being stored correctly ( they were stored in a basement of a building that suffered water damage. The only exception is HTWWW.

Well that's not quite true. The travelogues have always been kept miles away from the two other 3 strip elements. People keep forgetting that BOTH Grimm and West are co-owned by Warner from the Turner/MGM acquisition. The slight damage to Grimm happened while they were still in an MGM vault before Turner co. took possession. The negs to both Grimm and West would likely have been stored in the same facilities together (and moved together with the other MGM assets) throughout their lifespan. However BOTH Grimm and West were stored much more carefully than Cinerama inc. kept the travelogues, particularly since Turner got them.

[cinemad]

I'd be curious to hear more about the damage to Grimm's negatives. What year did it happen and at what facility? What other famous titles were damage? Asset management has always been dicey with film titles (nitrate fires, nitrate decay, vinegar syndrome. etc). Inquiring minds want to know.

They used the three-strip original camera negatives for the Search for Paradise Blu-ray and the quality appears to be excellent.

Regards,
Peter Mason

[g***@hotmail.com]

We will have to wait and see as we all know that the original negatives were damaged and will never be able to be fully restored.However any copy will be better than nothing. Hopefully the color will not look as washed out as the forthcoming dvd of South Seas Adventure footage that I showed you recently.

[Derek Gee]

Post by g***@hotmail.com
We will have to wait and see as we all know that the original negatives
were damaged >and will never be able to be fully restored.However any
copy will be better than >nothing. Hopefully the color will not look as
washed out as the forthcoming dvd of >South Seas Adventure footage that
I showed you recently.

Didn't you read greycomm's post from October 2nd?

"Meanwhile the folks from Image Trends, of D-ICE process, having been
present for 2 screenings of Grimm, say they have no doubt they can get a
good transfer from the Cinerama negs, damaged or not, or the 65mm negs. They
have already handled both situations with the travelogues, and the fact is
that Warners took better care of their elements than Pacific/Cinerama did.
Like they did with the travelogues, any sections of the neg they can't
repair (they actually say "Restore") they borrow from Library of Congress
and work to match it up. That's their statement, not mine."

Given the kinds of digital restoration I've seen with other films, I believe
it's possible to "fully restore" the film and perhaps even reveal detail
that wasn't evident in the prints back during the film's original runs. It
just takes money! Think of how much better the "This Is Cinerama"
restoration could have been if it had been scanned from the original camera
negatives at 8K each, and been recombined digitally the way "How The West
Was Won" was restored. I realize Cinerama Inc. didn't have that kind of
budget for TIC, but it's certainly possible to do so!

Derek

[cinemad]

We will have to wait and see as we all know that the original negatives >were damaged >and will never be able to be fully restored.However any >copy will be better than >nothing. Hopefully the color will not look as >washed out as the forthcoming dvd of >South Seas Adventure footage that >I showed you recently. Didn't you read greycomm's post from October 2nd? "Meanwhile the folks from Image Trends, of D-ICE process, having been present for 2 screenings of Grimm, say they have no doubt they can get a good transfer from the Cinerama negs, damaged or not, or the 65mm negs.

So they did make a 65mm Interneg from Grimm? Here in Australia apart from the original three-strip run we've only seen 35mm anamorphic prints.

I did see an Ad some years ago for a 70MM Presentation of Windjammer in the American City of St. Paul? Does that meaN that a 65mm Interneg was made for Windjammer as well?
Regards,
Peter Mason



They have already handled both situations with the travelogues, and the fact is that Warners took better care of their elements than Pacific/Cinerama did. Like they did with the travelogues, any sections of the neg they can't repair (they actually say "Restore") they borrow from Library of Congress and work to match it up. That's their statement, not mine." Given the kinds of digital restoration I've seen with other films, I believe it's possible to "fully restore" the film and perhaps even reveal detail that wasn't evident in the prints back during the film's original runs. It just takes money! Think of how much better the "This Is Cinerama" restoration could have been if it had been scanned from the original camera negatives at 8K each, and been recombined digitally the way "How The West Was Won" was restored. I realize Cinerama Inc. didn't have that kind of budget for TIC, but it's certainly possible to do so!

Derek