70mm Print of Bondarchuk's 'War and Peace'

[James Layton]

Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?

http://www.afi.com/silver/new/nowplaying/2004/v1i10/waran.aspx

Failing that, are there any other known prints about of the original
version? It seems odd it doesn't get shown much seeing as it's such a
spectacular film. Maybe it's the length that puts people off (or the
cost of the shipping!)

Thanks,
James

[spacecadet]

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?
http://www.afi.com/silver/new/nowplaying/2004/v1i10/waran.aspx
Failing that, are there any other known prints about of the original
version? It seems odd it doesn't get shown much seeing as it's such a
spectacular film. Maybe it's the length that puts people off (or the
cost of the shipping!)
Thanks,
James

At film school a friend and I decided that the battle scenes had been
shot from a mile-long circle of track suspended from helicopters.

[*core* (Richard)]

On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:09:29 -0700 (PDT), James Layton

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?

A 70mm print was stored in the Belgian Cinematheque. I do not
know if they still have it.

It was the 511' version. It has been screened for the last time
in the Brussels Flagey Theatre, in 70mm, on November 23, 2005.

If you are interested I could check with them to see if the print
is still there.

[James Layton]

Post by *core* (Richard)
On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:09:29 -0700 (PDT), James Layton

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?

     A 70mm print was stored in the Belgian Cinematheque.  I do not
     know if they still have it.
     It was the 511' version.   It has been screened for the last time
     in the Brussels Flagey Theatre, in 70mm, on November 23, 2005.
     If you are interested I could check with them to see if the print
     is still there.

Thanks Richard. Yes, I'm curious about the Belgian print; does it have
French or Flemish subtitles? Or non at all perhaps? Please do check
with the Archive to see if they still have it. I am very grateful!

[*core* (Richard)]

On Mon, 2 May 2011 10:28:50 -0700 (PDT), James Layton

Post by James Layton

Post by *core* (Richard)
On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:09:29 -0700 (PDT), James Layton

Thanks Richard. Yes, I'm curious about the Belgian print; does it have
French or Flemish subtitles? Or non at all perhaps? Please do check
with the Archive to see if they still have it. I am very grateful!

It will be done. But I do not go to Brussels before may 15, so
be patient. I'll keep you informed.

[LenKinap]

Post by James Layton

[15 lignes citées masquées]

Thanks Richard. Yes, I'm curious about the Belgian print; does it have
French or Flemish subtitles? Or non at all perhaps? Please do check
with the Archive to see if they still have it. I am very grateful!

If my memory is correct, both. But the print is realy in very bad shape. It
was projected with a temporary setup of Vic 8, reel to reel. The print is
comming from a bad internegative, with a lot of color flickering (Svema).
The Eastman part is almost faded and very grainy.

[in Technicolor®]

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?
http://www.afi.com/silver/new/nowplaying/2004/v1i10/waran.aspx
Failing that, are there any other known prints about of the original
version? It seems odd it doesn't get shown much seeing as it's such a
spectacular film. Maybe it's the length that puts people off (or the
cost of the shipping!)
Thanks,
James

Contact the San Francisco Film Festival. They allowed their print to be
shown in the late 90's at the Egyptian in LA. I saw that 70mm print
then and it was great. Still had good, but muted color, great sound
with an occassional noise in the surround channel.

The American Cinematheque said that they borrowed the SF print. I saw
parts of the print shown in an afternoon show in the early 70's at the
Coronet Theatre in San Francisco when the Film Festival was in progress
and the film's director did a Q and A after about 3 hours of 70mm clips
were shown.

BTW, I never saw so many storage shipping cans in my life that were
stacked up around the projection room of the Egyptian.

Good luck!

[LenKinap]

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?
http://www.afi.com/silver/new/nowplaying/2004/v1i10/waran.aspx
Failing that, are there any other known prints about of the original
version? It seems odd it doesn't get shown much seeing as it's such a
spectacular film. Maybe it's the length that puts people off (or the
cost of the shipping!)
Thanks,
James

Hello,

The belgium print is owned and stored at the Royal Beglium Film Academy (or
something similar). It's a composite print, some reels are on Eastman base
(and faded), the others are on Svema/Orwo stock.

The French OV print is now into good hands and is on Svema stock. It's the
spare print and it has almost never been used. The regular OV French print,
exhibited at the Kinopanorama is now gone. The last run was at the Cosmos
in the late 70's and it was in poor condition.

The two french dubbed prints, with the cuts, exhibited at the Gaumont
Palace and much later at the Kinopanorama are also gone for the first one
(Eastman)and the last one (Svema) - from a duplicate neg - is stored at the
French Film Archive at Bois d'Arcy. It's just an poor and grainy print and
I'm not sure it could be projected. Arkeion has a late 80's 35mm print,
almost white and yellow.

Two Svema prints are stored at GosFilmoFond and a partial ORWO reprint is
still located at Kiev. The O-neg and the O-sound have been recovered from
Kiev laboratory after the demise of USSR, after a long legal battle. The
Sound has been duplicated recently with the MosFilm Sondor's reproducer
and is in very good condition. It has nothing to do with the ducplicate
sound negative used for the DVD.

The O-neg has been consolidated and was into the pipeline to be scaned in
high-def on a dedicated BigFoot scanner, designed for Russian's 70mm
negative. Some financial circumstances have postponed the project for at
least one year.

MosFilm and LenFilm have a very big project for all their 70mm original
material, but the lack of money is a real problem. And there is a very
small market for these movies. Everything is very well stored, but there is
absolutely no solution to produce a single print due to the demise of all
their original labs and SVEMA/ORWO color processing. They are expecting
better days ... At least, Svema doesn't fade...

[James Layton]

Post by LenKinap

Post by James Layton
Does anyone know where the original version English-subtitled 70mm
copy of WAR AND PEACE that the AFI Silver Theatre screened in 2004 was
from?
http://www.afi.com/silver/new/nowplaying/2004/v1i10/waran.aspx
Failing that, are there any other known prints about of the original
version? It seems odd it doesn't get shown much seeing as it's such a
spectacular film. Maybe it's the length that puts people off (or the
cost of the shipping!)
Thanks,
James

Hello,
The belgium print is owned and stored at the Royal Beglium Film Academy (or
something similar). It's a composite print, some reels are on Eastman base
(and faded), the others are on Svema/Orwo stock.
The French OV print is now into good hands and is on Svema stock. It's the
spare print and it has almost never been used. The regular OV French print,
exhibited at the Kinopanorama is now gone. The last run was at the Cosmos
in the late 70's and it was in poor condition.
The two french dubbed prints, with the cuts, exhibited at the Gaumont
Palace and much later at the Kinopanorama are also gone for the first one
(Eastman)and the last one (Svema) - from a duplicate neg - is stored at the
French Film Archive at Bois d'Arcy. It's just an poor and grainy print and
I'm not sure it could be projected. Arkeion has a late 80's 35mm print,
almost white and yellow.
Two Svema prints are stored at GosFilmoFond and a partial ORWO reprint is
still located at Kiev. The O-neg and the O-sound have been recovered from
Kiev laboratory after the demise of USSR, after a long legal battle. The
Sound has been duplicated recently with the MosFilm Sondor's  reproducer
and is in very good condition. It has nothing to do with the ducplicate
sound negative used for the DVD.
The O-neg has been consolidated and was into the pipeline to be scaned in
high-def on a dedicated BigFoot scanner, designed for Russian's 70mm
negative. Some financial circumstances have postponed the project for at
least one year.
MosFilm and LenFilm have a very big project for all their 70mm original
material, but the lack of money is a real problem. And there is a very
small market for these movies. Everything is very well stored, but there is
absolutely no solution to produce a single print due to the demise of all
their original labs and SVEMA/ORWO color processing. They are expecting
better days ... At least, Svema doesn't fade...

Thanks LenKinap! So it sounds like the best print out there is the
French spare copy of the original version on Svema stock. Is this at
Bois D'Arcy? I'm losing track of where all these prints are!

Great news about the recovery of the original negs and the eventual
restoration! I hope the project isn't postponed too long.

[LenKinap]

Post by James Layton

[52 lignes citées masquées]

Thanks LenKinap! So it sounds like the best print out there is the
French spare copy of the original version on Svema stock. Is this at
Bois D'Arcy? I'm losing track of where all these prints are!
Great news about the recovery of the original negs and the eventual
restoration! I hope the project isn't postponed too long.

Hello,

The best print is privately owned, with a valid contract between us and
MosFilm. It was exhibited a few months ago at the NikFi with a perfect
setup of KP30 projectors. The Russian's prints are not allowed to leave
GosFilmoFond storage and to be projected. We take a lot of care of that
print, it's perfectly stored and no platter are allowed (only reel to
reel). It has just been washed a few years ago before the demise of MosFilm
70mm laboratory, we use acetic protectors and FilmGuard.

The late French dubbed print was still stored at Bois d'Arcy. But Arkeion
(former SovExport) has done a lot of cleanup recently (due to the high cost
of storage) and the print could be now onto the "dark market" of
collectors.

[Derek Gee]

Post by LenKinap
MosFilm and LenFilm have a very big project for all their 70mm original
material, but the lack of money is a real problem. And there is a very
small market for these movies. Everything is very well stored, but there is
absolutely no solution to produce a single print due to the demise of all
their original labs and SVEMA/ORWO color processing. They are expecting
better days ... At least, Svema doesn't fade...

Why is reprinting SVEMA/ORWO a problem, given that their processes were
based on old pre-war Agfa?

Derek

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by LenKinap
MosFilm and LenFilm have a very big project for all their 70mm original
material, but the lack of money is a real problem. And there is a very
small market for these movies. Everything is very well stored, but there is
absolutely no solution to produce a single print due to the demise of all
their original labs and SVEMA/ORWO color processing. They are expecting
better days ... At least, Svema doesn't fade...

Why is reprinting SVEMA/ORWO a problem, given that their processes were
based on old pre-war Agfa?

You can print Agfa negatives onto Kodak print stock although there's a little
bit of odd crossover. Agfa OCP into Kodak interneg actually does better.

The print, though, doesn't look like an Agfa print and it doesn't look
like a modern Eastman print... it's like this weird hybrid thing.

The original Agfacolor (and Sovcolor and Anscocolor) was just very distinct
and quite beautiful looking.

I suspect you could print the 70mm OCN at a number of labs today unless there
is a pitch issue going on. Anyone today have a 70mm step printer?
--scott

[LenKinap]

Post by Scott Dorsey

[12 lignes citées masquées]

You can print Agfa negatives onto Kodak print stock although there's a little
bit of odd crossover. Agfa OCP into Kodak interneg actually does better.
The print, though, doesn't look like an Agfa print and it doesn't look
like a modern Eastman print... it's like this weird hybrid thing.
The original Agfacolor (and Sovcolor and Anscocolor) was just very distinct
and quite beautiful looking.
I suspect you could print the 70mm OCN at a number of labs today unless there
is a pitch issue going on. Anyone today have a 70mm step printer?
--scott

Hello Scott,

Yes Arane (Gulliver) has a printer to handle 70mm OCN. But it's way too
expensive for MosFilm. And their choice (at least the one I have heard) is
to go to "real high definition digital media" (read 8K at least) for all
their 70mm negatives (conventional 70mm and Stereokino70). Since they have
dismanteled all their facilities to handle 70mm SVEMA negatives and went to
conventional 35mm lab, there is no realistic way to produce a print at the
right cost. Kiev was the last one and the material went to France and was
tranformed for 65mm (I think that Mr Faillot has still the 70mm material).
But the labor cost is not the same ...

A private/public partnership was into the pipeline to buy a dedicated line
to scan and restore all their 70mm negative. But the most important private
partner went to bankrupcy and it's now postponed.

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by LenKinap
Yes Arane (Gulliver) has a printer to handle 70mm OCN. But it's way too
expensive for MosFilm. And their choice (at least the one I have heard) is
to go to "real high definition digital media" (read 8K at least) for all
their 70mm negatives (conventional 70mm and Stereokino70). Since they have
dismanteled all their facilities to handle 70mm SVEMA negatives and went to
conventional 35mm lab, there is no realistic way to produce a print at the
right cost. Kiev was the last one and the material went to France and was
tranformed for 65mm (I think that Mr Faillot has still the 70mm material).
But the labor cost is not the same ...

You might try FotoKem in Hollywood. They have a 65mm/70mm printer and still
are even set up to do untimed workprints on 70mm.

I don't think they can stripe the stock, and I know Technicolor can't do
the striping any more. The big demand for 70mm today is pretty much all
Imax and that's all double-system.

If I were doing it today I would probably consider putting timecode on the
film and doing dbx sound.

Post by LenKinap
A private/public partnership was into the pipeline to buy a dedicated line
to scan and restore all their 70mm negative. But the most important private
partner went to bankrupcy and it's now postponed.

Scanning for digital storage is not a bad thing, but it's not the same as
making actual release prints from the original and getting them into theatres.
--scott

[Derek Gee]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Gee

Post by LenKinap
MosFilm and LenFilm have a very big project for all their 70mm original
material, but the lack of money is a real problem. And there is a very
small market for these movies. Everything is very well stored, but there is
absolutely no solution to produce a single print due to the demise of all
their original labs and SVEMA/ORWO color processing. They are expecting
better days ... At least, Svema doesn't fade...

Why is reprinting SVEMA/ORWO a problem, given that their processes were
based on old pre-war Agfa?

You can print Agfa negatives onto Kodak print stock although there's a little
bit of odd crossover. Agfa OCP into Kodak interneg actually does better.

What does "odd crossover" mean?

Post by Scott Dorsey
The print, though, doesn't look like an Agfa print and it doesn't look
like a modern Eastman print... it's like this weird hybrid thing.
The original Agfacolor (and Sovcolor and Anscocolor) was just very distinct
and quite beautiful looking.

I've seen Anscocolor and it's grainy with very odd, pastel colors. Nothing
I'd personally consider beautiful, but YMMV. I'd say it's better than
two-color, but not by much.

Scanning the negatives at 8K and creating digital intermediates that could
be reprinted to film if need be makes a lot of sense if printing on Kodak
stock yields poor results.

Derek

[Scott Dorsey]

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Scott Dorsey
You can print Agfa negatives onto Kodak print stock although there's a little
bit of odd crossover. Agfa OCP into Kodak interneg actually does better.

What does "odd crossover" mean?

The three curves for the three colors need to match fairly well for even
color... if one of them is evenly displaced up or down in sensitivity,
it can be compensated for with filtration.

But if the curves vary in slope at any point in the curve, you get changes
that cannot be compensated for. You'll wind up with highlights that are
red while the shadows go cyan, for instance.

This can sometimes result from processing chemistry issues, but often it can
result from the curves on the print stock being tweaked to compensate for
particular errors in the negative stock and then being used with a different
negative.

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Scott Dorsey
The original Agfacolor (and Sovcolor and Anscocolor) was just very distinct
and quite beautiful looking.

I've seen Anscocolor and it's grainy with very odd, pastel colors. Nothing
I'd personally consider beautiful, but YMMV. I'd say it's better than
two-color, but not by much.

Yes, it's grainy, but I love the pastel colors. It's a look all to itself,
like the anti-Kodachrome.

Post by Derek Gee
Scanning the negatives at 8K and creating digital intermediates that could
be reprinted to film if need be makes a lot of sense if printing on Kodak
stock yields poor results.

I know that I can tell the difference between a 4K DI and a 35mm EK... the
difference is not subtle although the 4K DI doesn't look bad itself. So I
would guess than an 8K scan probably would not be as good as a print off
the negative as far as resolution goes, but it probably wouldn't be bad.

I'm probably willing to take more color oddness than a lot of people, though.
I watch Eastmancolor that has gone red all the time....
--scott

[Derek Gee]

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Gee

Post by Scott Dorsey
You can print Agfa negatives onto Kodak print stock although there's a little
bit of odd crossover. Agfa OCP into Kodak interneg actually does better.

What does "odd crossover" mean?

The three curves for the three colors need to match fairly well for even
color... if one of them is evenly displaced up or down in sensitivity,
it can be compensated for with filtration.
But if the curves vary in slope at any point in the curve, you get changes
that cannot be compensated for. You'll wind up with highlights that are
red while the shadows go cyan, for instance.
This can sometimes result from processing chemistry issues, but often it can
result from the curves on the print stock being tweaked to compensate for
particular errors in the negative stock and then being used with a different
negative.

OK, thanks! I thought it might mean something like that. That means the
O-negs are a pain to print, but it's not impossible.

Post by Scott Dorsey

Post by Derek Gee
Scanning the negatives at 8K and creating digital intermediates that could
be reprinted to film if need be makes a lot of sense if printing on Kodak
stock yields poor results.

I know that I can tell the difference between a 4K DI and a 35mm EK... the
difference is not subtle although the 4K DI doesn't look bad itself. So I
would guess than an 8K scan probably would not be as good as a print off
the negative as far as resolution goes, but it probably wouldn't be bad.
I'm probably willing to take more color oddness than a lot of people, though.
I watch Eastmancolor that has gone red all the time....
--scott

It sounds like the project is do-able, it just needs money to get going.

Derek

[a***@gmail.com]

Hi LenKinap,

Your postings are fascinating. I am half of a screening club in London called A Nos Amours, and we put on the best print we could find of War & Peace - a poor downprint to 35mm 4x3 made for TV purposes on low contrast Eastman. Not good! I have however met some people through this event that might foot the bill for the restoration you hint might be possible. Please get in touch if you would like to try and pitch this to them, your detailed knowledge of what materials exist being key. See our web sute: www.anosamours.co.uk.

Adam Roberts

[m***@hotmail.com]

WAP is screened in Oslo Saturday 12. January 2013

70mm with Danish subtitles I believe - in color

8 hours complete version

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2012/oslo/index.htm