Discussion:
"Reflections In A Golden Eye" on DVD
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manitou
2006-12-05 03:42:17 UTC
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I've watched this a few times; it was released a few weeks ago as part
of a WHV Marlon Brando set.

Was wondering if anyone here knew about how the DVD was prepared.
Specifically, I wonder if the transfer was from an original source
_after_ application of the soft gold/sepia tint which John Huston
wanted for the film, or if WHV went back to the original color negative
and then desaturated the color and added a new gold/sepia tint
replicating the original? I guess here I'm also asking if in 1967
Warner Bros prepared an internegative incorporating the unusual color,
or if the color was part of printing for the original release prints.

I saw the movie only once (in New York) when it was new and while I
remember finding it interesting (and certainly remember the gold tint
and muted color) I don't remember it in the same detail as a few other
films from those days which I saw several times.

I give WHV high marks for the new release, though the DVD seems more
sepia than gold, in terms of my recollection from 39 years ago.

Couldn't help noting that the core story is near-identical to that for
"American Beauty". In more ways than one "Reflections..." was decades
ahead of its time. In addition to the unusual color manipulation, the
anamorphic Panavision cinematography is outstanding, and the movie's
surreal quality and mood are further enhanced by the fact that this
story set in The Deep South was filmed mainly in Italy (and during
early winter [November/December 1966] --- a featurette shows Brando and
Liz Taylor huddled in parkas and furs between takes).

Huston also got extraordinary performances from his cast, especially
Brando and Taylor, both of whom had begun drifting into self-parody by
the later 1960s and both of whom usually required strong directors to
deliver their best work. Brando's uptight, repressed military man is
spot on, and Taylor brings exceptional wit, subtle style and discreet
humour to her performance as the airhead/manipulative wife.








Charles
three-eyed freak
2006-12-05 23:48:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by manitou
I've watched this a few times; it was released a few weeks ago as part
of a WHV Marlon Brando set.
Was wondering if anyone here knew about how the DVD was prepared.
Specifically, I wonder if the transfer was from an original source
_after_ application of the soft gold/sepia tint which John Huston
wanted for the film, or if WHV went back to the original color negative
and then desaturated the color and added a new gold/sepia tint
replicating the original? I guess here I'm also asking if in 1967
Warner Bros prepared an internegative incorporating the unusual color,
or if the color was part of printing for the original release prints.
I saw the movie only once (in New York) when it was new and while I
remember finding it interesting (and certainly remember the gold tint
and muted color) I don't remember it in the same detail as a few other
films from those days which I saw several times.
I give WHV high marks for the new release, though the DVD seems more
sepia than gold, in terms of my recollection from 39 years ago.
Couldn't help noting that the core story is near-identical to that for
"American Beauty". In more ways than one "Reflections..." was decades
ahead of its time. In addition to the unusual color manipulation, the
anamorphic Panavision cinematography is outstanding, and the movie's
surreal quality and mood are further enhanced by the fact that this
story set in The Deep South was filmed mainly in Italy (and during
early winter [November/December 1966] --- a featurette shows Brando and
Liz Taylor huddled in parkas and furs between takes).
Huston also got extraordinary performances from his cast, especially
Brando and Taylor, both of whom had begun drifting into self-parody by
the later 1960s and both of whom usually required strong directors to
deliver their best work. Brando's uptight, repressed military man is
spot on, and Taylor brings exceptional wit, subtle style and discreet
humour to her performance as the airhead/manipulative wife.
I don't know the answers to your technical questions, but I am glad I
am not the only person who enjoyed this much-maligned film. I saw it
when it played first-run here in Louisville and was fascinated by the
golden tint and washed-out color. It did lent an aura of mystery to
the story. I liked the acting by Taylor and Brando as well. Didn't
Guiseppe Rotunno do the photography? (I saw it again several months
later at a local drive-in and the golden tint was gone. Apparently
there were two different release prints. Both were Panavision
anamorphic too).

I also loved the original score by Toshiro Mayuzumi, which has never
had an OST release. Huston obviously liked the job Mayuzumi did
scoring he previous film, The Bible.
Post by manitou
Charles
manitou
2006-12-06 05:03:06 UTC
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This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
l***@yahoo.com
2006-12-06 19:37:44 UTC
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Post by manitou
Was wondering if anyone here knew about how the DVD was prepared.
Specifically, I wonder if the transfer was from an original source
_after_ application of the soft gold/sepia tint which John Huston
wanted for the film, or if WHV went back to the original color negative
and then desaturated the color and added a new gold/sepia tint
replicating the original? I guess here I'm also asking if in 1967
Warner Bros prepared an internegative incorporating the unusual color,
or if the color was part of printing for the original release prints.
---an SMPTE Journal article on color manipulation from ages ago
discussed this film.
A B/W dupe neg was made from the OCN. Technicolor IB matrices were
made by exposing both the color neg and B/W dupe onto the same matrice
plus a bit of color shift for the warm tint. Since it was all done
while making the matrices, there would be no desaturated I/N.

The look would probably be replicated for the DVD by going back to the
OCN and manipulating the color in video.

---LV
manitou
2006-12-06 21:38:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by manitou
Was wondering if anyone here knew about how the DVD was prepared.
Specifically, I wonder if the transfer was from an original source
_after_ application of the soft gold/sepia tint which John Huston
wanted for the film, or if WHV went back to the original color negative
and then desaturated the color and added a new gold/sepia tint
replicating the original? I guess here I'm also asking if in 1967
Warner Bros prepared an internegative incorporating the unusual color,
or if the color was part of printing for the original release prints.
---an SMPTE Journal article on color manipulation from ages ago
discussed this film.
A B/W dupe neg was made from the OCN. Technicolor IB matrices were
made by exposing both the color neg and B/W dupe onto the same matrice
plus a bit of color shift for the warm tint. Since it was all done
while making the matrices, there would be no desaturated I/N.
The look would probably be replicated for the DVD by going back to the
OCN and manipulating the color in video.
Thanks for reply.

I've just received "Troubles In A Golden Eye", published last year
about preparation/production for the movie. As with so many films, the
behind-the-scenes story is even more compelling than the final movie.
Liz wanted the DP fired, but Italian unions made this impossible. She
was further disgrunted that her nude double didn't have a more svelte
figure. Huston initially prepared two completely different scripts:
one to get Carson McCullers' approval/cooperation, and another to get
Liz' approval/cooperation.

The decommissioned military base was on Long Island, but facades for
the two primary houses were rebuilt in Italy because, for tax reasons,
Liz couldn't spend a lot of time filming in the US.

Actors came/went/died. Writers, including Truman Capote and Tennessee
Williams, came/went/feuded.

I guess my one complaint re the DVD is that it doesn't include more
info re the production, and a more detailed technical discussion of the
unusual color and how this was replicated for the new disc.


Charles
Mr. Mike
2006-12-07 00:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by manitou
I guess my one complaint re the DVD is that it doesn't include more
info re the production, and a more detailed technical discussion of the
unusual color and how this was replicated for the new disc.
Or the DVD doesn't contain (maybe on a second disc) the "full color"
version ... which can be glimpsed in the trailer.
manitou
2006-12-07 02:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Mike
Post by manitou
I guess my one complaint re the DVD is that it doesn't include more
info re the production, and a more detailed technical discussion of the
unusual color and how this was replicated for the new disc.
Or the DVD doesn't contain (maybe on a second disc) the "full color"
version ... which can be glimpsed in the trailer.
Well...... you're welcome to my old pan/scan VHS tape!

In fact, I agree it could be interesting to have the full color
version, if only for comparison/reference.

The sepia (more than gold IMO) look of the DVD suggests Huston wanted a
fairly monochromatic look for the movie, but considered black and white
would have been be too stark.

Charles
Mr. Mike
2006-12-08 00:17:38 UTC
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This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
manitou
2006-12-08 01:59:04 UTC
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Post by Mr. Mike
Post by manitou
The sepia (more than gold IMO) look of the DVD suggests Huston wanted a
fairly monochromatic look for the movie, but considered black and white
would have been be too stark.
According to the IMDB, "Originally released in a version in which all
scenes were suffused with the color gold, with one object in each
scene (such as a rose) normally-colored." But I don't recall many
instances of this happening (sort of like the girl in the red dress in
Schindler's List).
Again, I'd say that Huston's vision was ahead of his time and,
interestingly, more comparable with visual concepts for certain films
during the past decade or so which have used color desaturation to some
extent ("Road To Perdition").

Charles
c***@hotmail.com
2006-12-08 06:25:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@yahoo.com
Post by manitou
Was wondering if anyone here knew about how the DVD was prepared.
Specifically, I wonder if the transfer was from an original source
_after_ application of the soft gold/sepia tint which John Huston
wanted for the film, or if WHV went back to the original color negative
and then desaturated the color and added a new gold/sepia tint
replicating the original? I guess here I'm also asking if in 1967
Warner Bros prepared an internegative incorporating the unusual color,
or if the color was part of printing for the original release prints.
---an SMPTE Journal article on color manipulation from ages ago
discussed this film.
A B/W dupe neg was made from the OCN. Technicolor IB matrices were
made by exposing both the color neg and B/W dupe onto the same matrice
plus a bit of color shift for the warm tint. Since it was all done
while making the matrices, there would be no desaturated I/N.
The look would probably be replicated for the DVD by going back to the
OCN and manipulating the color in video.
The same technique was used on John Huston's MOBY DICK(1956).
Of course bi-packing the original neg. with a B/W dupe has the effect
of de-saturating the color so it's more than just a color shift. Of
course these days they could probably obtain similar results in the
digital domain.

By the way Oswald Morris(Moby Dick's DOP) discusses this technique in a
book published about 1970 called "Practical Motion Picture
Photography."
Regards,
Peter mason
Post by l***@yahoo.com
---LV
d***@earthlink.net
2006-12-08 16:31:50 UTC
Permalink
It was a little different for "Moby Dick". In that case, Morris had
the b&w matrices made from the color o-neg with broad instead of
narrow-cut color separation filters, causing each color record to
contain some info from the other two.

This produced a dye transfer print that was rather washed out and
pastel. Technicolor was experimenting with this technique to create
low-con prints for transfer to TV. Morris had them use a IB printer
that still had the fourth "silver key" printer to restore the contrast
and black levels of the prints.

When it came time to do the prints for "Reflections in a Golden Eye",
Technicolor no longer was doing the fourth "silver key" pass, and
decided to create desaturated matrices differently.

David Mullen, ASC

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